Episode 27 - Money Flows Toward Trust with Chuck Bentley
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Every once in awhile, we get to have conversations with living legends. Today is one of those days. If you’ve been around the faith driven conversation, you’ve most likely heard the name, Chuck Bentley.
Chuck is the CEO of Crown Ministries, as well as the Founder and Executive Director of the Christian Economic Forum. His fingerprints are all over the Faith Driven Investor and Entrepreneur websites, and today’s episode is a reminder of why.
He’s been a faithful steward of this conversation, he freely shares his wisdom born out of experience, and our conversation with him today is one you’ll enjoy...
Episode Transcript
Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.
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Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the faith driven investor. We've got a special edition here with Chuck Bentley, something that is really special for me. Chuck's a great friend. He's been a great encouragement to me for a long, long time. He is the leader of Crown Financial. He's the leader of the Christian Economic Forum. He has a podcast he hosts himself with a really, really cool studio. Wish you could see if we had video up, you'd see why. I have great studio envy. He's got something really set up because they've got incredible product. The Christian Economic Forum podcast is really, really, really, really good. And it really want to highly recommend that as I do what he does through the Christian Economic Forum. And so many more of you will know about his work at Crown Financial. I'm going to talk about all that today. So, Chuck, first off, thank you for being with us.
Chuck Bentley: Well, thank you, Henry. I enjoy being on the other side of the microphone today because I had the privilege of interviewing you just recently, and it was one of our top podcasts. I'm hoping I can live up to the bar that you set so high for us.
Henry Kaestner: You're very kind. And apparently you don't have any other guests. I might have been one of just one or two. And I know another one is competing against was my partner, Luke Roush. So it was a very low bar, but thank you anyway. So tell us all. As we get started. Want to hear a little bit about your background. But before we get into Christian Economic Forum, which I will ask you some questions on. Tell us about your background and tell us about Crown Financial.
Chuck Bentley: Well, just a quick background on myself, I grew up in business, I have a business degree from Baylor and went into the oil and gas business with my family. My father started the company years ago, and that's primarily my background. I did a couple of other things before I got called in to do what I do today. I've walked both sides of the street of the for profit and not for profit world. I'm particularly drawn to Crown because we're about teaching God's principles of stewardship and stewardship is what I like to call the invisible power that changes everything. When you see good stewardship present, you know it. You feel it. You're actually you're at peace. You're relaxed. It's everything's functioning the way it should. And when good stewardship is absent, everything is broken and in dire need. The scripture says that people groan and I think that's an absence of stewardship. So at Crown, we perpetuate that and we use a lot of different means to do that. It was started by the late Larry Burkett, who wrote 70 books on the topic. And we now operate around the world helping people know how to be better stewards.
Henry Kaestner: 70 books. That's awesome. So tell us about the Christian Economic Forum. It was born out of much of the work that you'd seen happen with Crown and people that had been gathered around. But tell us how it started. Tell us about the work and how it's grown and why I think it's so cool.
Chuck Bentley: One of the things that happened to me as I was traveling the world opening crown offices, that was my job for many years. So I've been to every continent except the cold ones, except the ones where they're covered in tundra. And we were starting offices and the people that would greet me at the airport were invariably the top Christian leaders in those countries. And I could just go around the world and just point out who's who of people who were the best Christian investors, the best Christian entrepreneurs, the best Christian stewards in their country. And I began to ask myself, why is that happening? I mean, I wasn't networking to find these people. I wasn't trying to find them. It just was a reoccurring theme. And then suddenly I realized two things were a common denominator. First of all, these guys were great stewards themselves. They understood the principles of stewardship. Their businesses were built on great principles of stewardship, and they had a heart to help the people in their community or their nation to flourish. And they knew those principles were going to be necessary to share what they knew was the invisible power of God, the power of being a good steward. And from that, I began to think, right, these guys aren't working on their budget. They're really managing a balance sheet. They have huge responsibilities. What would happen if I got them together and in an agenda-neutral environment and asked them just to start sharing and talk about issues that really matter at a macro level? These are very capable problem solvers. These are people that that's how they've found success, is learning to find the core issue and get to quickly. And so I did it. I was the least likely person to be qualified to do it. The idea came when I was standing in the airport with my wife in Zurich, Switzerland, leaving a meeting where I'd met some of these great Christian leaders. The world was coming in to go to Davos, but I thought, we need something on par with that. That's got the same professionalism, but allows people with the Christian world view to really share their hearts where they're not going to be asked for money. They're not going to be given a job to do, but they're going to be able to share their knowledge and wisdom with other people. So that's how we got started.
Henry Kaestner: Gotcha. OK, so one of the things that our listeners love, of course, everybody does, are stories. There've been some great stories that I've been a part of and that I've seen at the Christian Economic Forum. Tell us about some of your favorites.
Chuck Bentley: Well, I've got lots of favorite stories, Henry. One of them is the fact that the top Christian economist inside of China is a part of our forum. He was an atheist, sent to the United States to study the reason for our prosperity. He did an academic study. All of his research went back to China at the risk of his own life. And as an atheist said, I've got good news and bad news. The good news is I've discovered the secret of why America is more prosperous in China. The bad news is you're not going to like the answer. Christianity. And he documented the fact that the Judeo-Christian ethic, the values and the operating principles of God's economy are what accelerated us ahead of the rest of the world. And he defended that in a white paper that was read by 100 hundred million people at the risk of his own life. And through that research, he came to faith in Christ. And when I read the paper, I read it in The Wall Street Journal. And I said, you know, this guy is a kindred spirit with me. I believe that is the solution to the world's economic problems is to know God's principles. And so through a series of really miraculous events in my life, I ended up sitting at a conference next to the author of that whitepaper. We had never been introduced. And there we were side by side. I didn't speak Chinese and he didn't speak English. But through a translator, we met each other. And that began a lifelong friendship of two people who believe that we need to perpetuate the advancement of God's financial principles to the whole world. And so he became somewhat of a partner, a silent partner in this endeavor. And he continues to help us to grow the forum and to spread that truth to every nation that we possibly can. That's just one of them, Henry. Tell me your favorite story and that will stimulate some more of mine.
Henry Kaestner: Well, I think, you know, Craig Dealll and I think back to the Christian Economic Forum in California. I think that you had also address this in Singapore, one that I didn't go to. But just what's going on in racial reconciliation in Zimbabwe and massive forgiveness was really poignant having a black African or a white African on the stage together, hugging each other and talking about their shared passion for their Christian faith and ultimately their shared passion for each other, just amazingly powerful.
Chuck Bentley: That is powerful. In fact, that's been one of my top podcasts, is telling his story through CEF of how God has used them personally, knows how to lose everything and still have joy and peace and contentment. Let me tell you one more that happened through the Christian Economic Forum, and I'd like to qualify this by saying I don't wanna take credit for any of it. The forum has enabled some of these collaboration's to happen, but I don't think it's because of us. I think they may not have happened without us, but I don't want to beat our chests and say we've made this happen. But John Erwin is a friend of mine. We've been friends a long time and I invite him to come to the forum. And John's a filmmaker and he came as a young guy and told his story. He was called on why I want to make films. And he said, because my generation will not read books, but they'll watch films. And to really reach my generation, we've got to make non cheesy faith based films. And a couple of the guys that just resonated with them and unbeknownst to me, they met him out in the hallway and said, tell us your dream. What film are you trying to make? And he cast a little vision there. He was ready. You know, he had a little trailer, his mobile phone. Next thing you know, twenty five million dollars flowed into his organization that enabled them to have a breakout movie on in Hollywood.
Henry Kaestner: Which movie was that?
Chuck Bentley: Well, that one the one that those guys funded was Woodlawn. And it was a great movie. And then that went on from there to become Moms Night out. And then they did. I can only imagine. Yeah, of course. I can only imagine. Rung the bell. That one was a very big financial success for them, but I take great joy in that. Henry, I didn't raise twenty five million dollars for John. He knows that. But I was able to put him in front of the people that helped him take the next step. And that does impact culture. That is one of the ways that our message gets out. And so I'm just so proud of that. And the stories go on and on.
Henry Kaestner: So this year, as can be the 10th anniversary of the Christian Economic Forum. You were gonna have it in Jerusalem. Obviously, that's all changed. What's this year looking like? And how do you anticipate the shaping future gatherings?
Henry Kaestner: I'd like to say that this crisis has helped us because it forced us into a corner. Many people think the Christian Economic Forum is just one event, one time a year. And that's been our history. We really weren't providing year round value to our members, but because we had to cancel Jerusalem, we kicked into high gear to say what can we do to share the principles and the knowledge among each other? And so we collected white papers. Those are starting to come out. They're published every year. Then we began podcasting and we started a WhatsApp channel and started sharing information among our membership around the world. From that, we've seen great value being added to our members lives. There's a couple that you know, that are in a real challenging time. They're classified. They're not in this country, but they're classified as a business at great risk because all their customers are wiped out. Right now, they supply retailers. But through a prayer call that we hosted, they found a new customer. And that was just God at work, you know, and that's going to help them keep more people employed and to grow their business. And so. We're finding that God used the crisis to help us get better at what we're trying to accomplish.
William Norvell: Thanks for walking us through that Chuck, William, here. So great to have you. And I've been fortunate to come to a few of the forums as well. And just so thankful for you responding to God's leading and walking towards the path that he was opening up through some of these opportunities. And one of the things I know, and you mentioned it a little bit, as you get the opportunity to spend a lot of time with leaders and with people that are leading organizations, whether it's for profit or nonprofit in all kinds of different countries around the world, you might be able to get a chance to interact with more people leading in different distinct environments than few others that we're gonna have on this podcast. I'd love for you to share with our listeners a little bit about what it looks like to lead during these uncertain times. To timestamp this, we are doing this during the middle of the COVID crisis, we're about six weeks in. What are you hearing out there and how are people thinking about what God is doing around the world and what their role is to lean in as a steward of the leadership that they've given that God has given them?
Chuck Bentley: I'll give you two quick answers to that, William, because I think that's been pretty thoroughly discussed on some of your podcasts that I've had the privilege to listen to. But I think I can add a few points. I think right now what I'm hearing among leaders is there's a premium on wisdom. There's not a premium on information because we're overwhelmed with information, everybody's got information overload and we're almost saturated trying to keep up with what data to process, what data to throw out. So what's risen to the top is how to respond with wisdom. And I think wisdom is being able to effectively apply truth to our lives. And we're seeing God's leaders who are filtering the headlines through God's word. And those are the people making very, very wise decisions. That's what the world needs right now. And that's what God's leaders are doing. They're taking the data. They're processing it. They're checking it against scripture, and then they're making really good decisions of how to apply that. I think, secondly is that people are moving more rapid than they would be otherwise. You're seeing that I had one leader tell me I'm under a lot of pressure to make great decisions fast, and I'm concerned about that because I feel like I've got to be moving faster than I've been in the past. But when you curtail that pressure of quickness with the timeless, priceless wisdom of God, then you can move fast and know that you're on sure footing. And I'm seeing that across the board. I'm seeing the leaders that I know and interact with being able to navigate this better than those who really don't have a North Star, who don't know how to process the data and make a wise decision.
William Norvell: And that's a great transition. We didn't spend a ton of time talking about what you did at Crown, but I don't know if you would venture yourself an economist per say. You can answer that in a minute. I know you know a lot about the economy and you've spent a lot of time thinking about what God thinks about the economy. And during uncertain times, I would love if you would take us a layer into the certainty of some of God's economic principles. And I know you've written about this before, so I'd love our listeners be able to hear the framework with which you think about how the Bible and how God thinks about the underlying foundational economic principles that he has laid out for us to follow.
Chuck Bentley: Now, I want to run through a couple of those quickly. And thank you for that opportunity, William and Henry, because I am not an economist and I'm not an expert really at anything. I think the one thing that I would maybe if I could stake my claim as an expert at anything, I would like to believe that I know what the Bible says about money and economics as well as most anybody else. I really have dedicated myself to study in that for the past 20 years. And there are principles that are absolutely certain that we can rely on right now. I have a son that suffers with perpetual or chronic anxiety and he just has trouble turning it off. At times. It's affected his sleep. It's affected a lot of areas of his life. And one of the things when it's really happening, that hamster wheel is spinning in his mind. I'll sat down with him and this little technique has helped him so much. I'll say, what do we know that's certain? And let's run to what is certain right now and we'll just start ticking off what's certain. OK. You're well, you're not in danger. You've got opportunities. You know, we just start listing everything we know to be true and it brings calm into his life. And I think when there's economic uncertainty like this, this massive gap of the unknown, I mean, we don't even know what data to rely on in some cases and who's telling the truth and who's promoting propaganda. We just need to pause and run to what certain and God's principles are what we know are certain. You know, when I look at what God says, we're not owners were stewards. Then that should bring us relief. That should bring us relief from the stress that we are temporarily managing on God's behalf. And the requirement for a steward is not to be successful, but to be faithful. And the Bible says if you're faithful with the little, you'll be entrusted with much. So that's a huge economic principles world ignores because money flows towards trust. Just like water runs downhill. Money will always flow towards trust. So what happens in an economic crisis? Money leaves environments that are high risk and untrustworthy and moved to those presumed to be trustworthy, Singapore, Switzerland or the United States in a crisis. Money doesn't flow to corrupt nations. It flows out of those nations. And so for a business owner or an investor to position yourself as being a trustworthy steward, faithful in the crisis puts you in a position to attract more investment. We're always attracted to trust. And that's where money will always go. And that's something we know we'll be certain before the crisis, during the crisis and after the crisis. And then one that I really love. I think we miss sometimes it's a principle of meekness. The Bible says that we're all to be meek because in comparison to God, we are very weak creatures. But meekness doesn't mean we can actually means power under control. I tell people I'm helping to manage their finances. Well, you should always have more in storage than you have that the public can view. And when you manage your finances with meekness, it affects your lifestyle choices. It affects your business policies, affects everything in your life. And you're demonstrating that the ego of money is not in control, that there's a deep sense of humility and dependency when you exercise meekness in all of your choices. And the Bible promises in Matthew five five that the meek shall inherit the earth. And if you think about that promise, that certain promise of God, it should make all of us as investors and God's investors to want to pursue being meek, to be really careful about how we feel about our own acumen in business, how we feel about the decisions we make, and to guide even when we've been successful, to guide all of our decisions with a great deal of humility. And just a quick story, a guy and CFO that I met. He owns a factory that they built, the equipment that built the factory that creates the products that are sold to 200 nations. Thirty five hundred people working in the factory. Top top business success in his country. Just a super example. And when he invited me home to his house for dinner, I remember going into the home and thinking I can is this is far simpler than I ever imagined. I just didn't think his lifestyle would be so humble. Because it doesn't have to be. But it was a choice that he made. And in our conversation, I asked him what was his life verse? And he quoted Matthew 5:5 and I thought, you know, he's living it out. This is a very meek person. So those are just a couple of them. Maybe I'd mention one more, William, if we've got time. I like the law of inverse prosperity. The prosperity gospel gets confused in the Christian world today. And I like to teach Jeremiah 29 because everybody knows verse eleven. Some people have it posted on their wall or they live by that. Now, I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord plans to prosper. You not harm me. Plan to give you hope in future. But verse seven, he tells you what the plan is. And God said in Jeremiah twenty nine and seven that you should seek the prosperity and the peace of the city where I've called you. And he says, if you will seek their prosperity, you too will prosper. And so he flips the prosperity gospel upside down. And he said the best business plan, even if you're a refugee in Babylon, is to help other people prosper. And if you think about the best business models in the world, the ones that almost require no selling, you know, they're the unicorn type growth. They're the ones that help somebody else get better at what they're doing. Their service or their product improves the life of other people. And there should be no secret to any of us. But it's a secret in the sense that it's God's idea, not man's idea. God told his people to live that way. And I met a guy that was doing it. And interestingly enough, he had been incarcerated, found Christ in the prison, and he knew how to do mechanics. He got a job as a mechanical mechanic repair in this very large fleet of vehicles that were service vehicles. And that's what he did for a living. And going along just fine. And one day got an idea. He calculated and this guy used to be in prison. He started counting how long those trucks were in the shop and shut down for making money for the owner. And on average, three days. And so he went to the business owner and said, hey, I've got an idea. Why do we get a truck and we go to the field and service these big rigs instead of having them bring him in to shut him down for three days? And he said, how long you think you repair one in the field? He said, three hours. And so imagine that business proposition. You get your truck fixed in three days or in three hours. And so they partnered on this business the first year, did over a million dollars and billings on this mobile diesel mechanic repair business, cutting down the time from three days to three hours. So those are some of the principles that come to my mind way. And they're not the ones that are sort of percolating to the top of most people's radar. But I think those are great ones to remember during this crisis.
Henry Kaestner: Chuck, you've been around this movement for a long time by the movement, I'm talking you about the faith driven investor movement. You've been with people as a store of money, as you think about investments, as this movement grows, as people start to think more purposefully and more intentionally about how they stored not just their donation capital, but also their investment capital as well. What are some thoughts or encouragements or just hopes that you have for the development of this space as people become more and more intentional with how they invest their money?
Chuck Bentley: Well, I think a couple of things. I hope that there's more collaboration. I'd really appreciate some of the terminology that you and Luke have introduced to the movement to try to thank you. Say to try to de-tower of Babel this thing is it.
Henry Kaestner: It is. And for our listeners, we've got the video going right now. And so Chuck can see this picture of the Tower of Babel is behind me on my wall. I continue to be fascinated by what does it look like when the body of Christ comes together to build something not for their glory, but for God's glory? And how special might that be if, you know, Brueghel's painting, you know, the intricacy and the detail and the scope of this tower that they are building that, of course, was doomed for failure because there are building for the wrong reasons. But Chuck is talking to of course is what does it look like for a bunch of us to come together.
Chuck Bentley: Well, I think if you look at the history of the impact Christian investors have had on the world, it's enormous. We were the group that primarily built the schools. We built the hospitals, we built infrastructure. We built dams. We built all the systems that created wealth for the world. And that's really one of God's gift to individual believers. And it's just been remarkable to track that throughout history we've influenced the prosperity and flourishing of the whole world. And we've done that in a diversified way. And diversification is a great thing. It provides safety and it's a good thing. But when there's a deep sense of trust and that's what's essential in a movement that's going to collaborate together where there's a deep sense of trust, it's really obvious that we could do more together than individually. And I think when people have common operating system of stewardship as opposed owners, you can set aside some pride, you can set aside some of that hubris and some of the metrics where we tend to want credit for things that are achieved and really do more together. And I want to encourage people to begin to do those kind of things together in the movement and to take on the big task. To me, it's a David and Goliath type scenario where the people who are really skilled and equipped, they surface during the battle and they may not look like they're bigger than the giant that they're face in culture or a problem that's in economic systems. But I think we can be some of the people that bring those five stones to bear on the guise of economics and in our culture and really see them change. And I'd like to see that happen. That's one of the things that I'm pulling for.
Chuck, as we have probably about five minutes before William asks he final question, which is going to be what is God teaching you through the Bible right now, through his word, knowing our audience and forget about the script. Anything else that you think that investors should know or should be concerned about or should find their identity in or trend that you've seen out there that you've been thinking about, that you think that people need to wrestle with more, anything? What do you think for five minutes? What do we riff on?
Chuck Bentley: You know, I'm very concerned about the shift in culture that is turning negative towards very basic things in investing like profit. Very basic things like building a large business, employing a lot of people. I had a social media exchange with a young person just recently. And I was a little bit stunned by how sour and almost bitter and antagonistic he was towards people who've been successful. And that's a very dangerous thing. I think when you look at the Ten Commandments and you put that through the grid of faith driven investor, God actually set up the original laws to help investors succeed. And if you look at the Ten Commandments on a macro level, cultures that worship God Almighty in him alone, they do better economically than those who have a myriad of idols and outward manifestations of some false God. And he will bless those who honor him. Then you look at the very practical elements of the Ten Commandments, like don't steal. Don't murder. Don't lie. Don't commit adultery. Those destroy trust. And when trust is destroyed, economies are destroyed. And then lastly, he said, do not covet. And that's the only one that's internal to our heart. The others are external, invisible, and you make laws against them and enforce those laws. But only God, in his words, said to an investor, to a believer, do not cover something else, has hindered. What that allows us to do is to joyfully celebrate success. I don't have to envy your success. I don't have to be greedy to try to replicate it or compare myself to it. God said you swim in your own lane and then you can be joyful for how I bless other people or the jobs they create or the wealth that they're called to manage. And I really think that we need to uphold those values as we get more and more collectively and individually successful. We need to say, let's celebrate the goodness of God and give him the credit and let that overflow and generosity, but protect the movement of the core values. As a believer that it is OK to succeed. God himself created a meritocracy and his principles allow us to flourish. And those are good things for people create jobs. And those are great outcomes. And we need to be able to in a winsome way, defend that position as Christian investors.
William Norvell: Chuck, thank you so much for diving into some of the principles and walking us through this. As I think about a listener, my guess is they might be really identifying with these and say, you know, but what does it look like in practice? You know, how do I take the first step? How do I go forward with that initial step towards putting some of these into work? And if you could give us an example of a person or two that in your life has really taken that first step in and built something that'd be great. So please do that for us, if you would mind.
Chuck Bentley: One of the things that I've seen investors trip up over is what really motivates the investor. Obviously, we have to have good returns and we have to have very sound investment principles. But when you strip all that back, what's really motivating them? And I find that oftentimes they think cannot be motivated by something other than, you know, the desire to win or even greed, because a lot of times there's nothing else that's been proposed to fill that void. And what I've seen people do that have been successful in the investing side and not greedy and not driven by coveting or comparison, are just trying to build something bigger than the next guy. These people are driven by love. Love is a tremendous motivator. You know, when you say, I love my family and I'm gonna go out and bring something home for them to eat tonight. That's OK. That's, in fact, a good thing. It's showing tangible expressions of love for your family when you really love the people you work with and you want to be sure they have job security, that's OK to be motivated by that. When you want to see problems of the world saw where you can bring the blessings of God and human flourishing in this common grace to the rest of the world. And you really do love God and love people. That's a great thing to do, Henry, and to make it tangible. A friend of mine named David Snyder, and he'd probably super embarrassed if I called him out on this. But David thought he might go to the mission field, you know, because he loved God. And that's what you see a lot of Christians wrestle with. And he said, no, this is not my gift. He's much more analytical, much more tactical. And so he said he was in college. He said, I think I'll just figure out a way to help this guy who's going in the mission field and needs support. So he bought a duplex and he lived in one side of it. Any place, 100 percent of the revenue from the other side, that duplex, while he was a college student to his friend who went to the mission field, and he was his primary launch into the world of serving on the mission field. And David got so excited about that. He thought, what if I buy another apartment and out of love for God and love for missions and love for people on the field? He bought another one, you know. And that core motivation of love for God, love for people led him to be a phenomenal investor. At one point in his career, his owned like 15,000 individual apartment units. And he loves the people in those units. He loves having chaplains onboard. He likes getting crown materials to teach them how to be better stewards. He takes care of them where they've got the covid virus. He had about 15 of his employees and tenants injured in the great tragedy of the mass shooting in Las Vegas, because he has a lot of units there and he just responded with such love and grace and kindness. He's a picture of what a faith driven investor looks like to me, Henry.
Henry Kaestner: That's a great example. I know, David. You couldn't have picked any better. And he's done very, very, very well financially. His investment returns have been outstanding.
Chuck Bentley: And love is a good motivation, Henry. And it also applies to that other problem that I have angst with. Is the world's pushing back against people making profit, growing big companies employing a lot of people. You know, that's not a bad thing. And if we can be a group that shows the love of God to the rest of the world, what a beautiful picture to have good financial returns, good business practices, very strong high levels of professionalism and integrity in show loved all the people around us.
William Norvell: Chuck, as we come to a close, we always love to see how our listeners and our guest are connected through God's word. And that's just an amazing time for us. We love getting notes in from people of just seeing what God's word does through this medium. And so if you would mind sharing with us. Where does God have you today in his word or during the season, something that you might be meditating on that he might be taking you through?
Chuck Bentley: William, I've read through the word of God many times, and it's a practice that I enjoy. That's what I do as I try to just read straight through the word of God. Year after year.
But this year I'm doing something different. I'm listening to the word of God. So I have a Bible app that I really like reading it and how it's done. And I get up in the mornings and I listen through it and it causes me to listen differently. And it's had a great impact on me. I'm enjoying it so much. I literally look forward every morning to getting up for my time to just plug in the earphones and listen to it. But I got to part the other day in Jeremiah, where Jeremiah was complaining to God.
And there's not many places recorded in the scripture, and I'm glad my name isn't recorded in the scripture, as one who complained to God. I mean, if I were in the Bible, I would be embarrassed at some of the things that would be revealed about me. But Jeremiah, it's revealed that he's asking God questions and he's not happy. And one of the questions he asked in Jeremiah 12 is how long? You know, he's upset. He's just really anxious. And I think for where we are right now, we can all relate to that question is how long, how long is this gonna go on? Seems like it's going on forever. And I'm tired of it. And so God answers him. And I was just fascinated by his answer. He, as he typically does, ask you a question in return, just the way it did with Job. And so he says to Jeremiah. Jeremiah, if you've been running with men and you're already weary, how are you going to keep up with horses? And he just reset the whole perspective for Jeremiah. And he pointed out to him that this has a purpose. You know, this waiting, this learning and growing in character in patience is to prepare you for another challenge and a challenge maybe you haven't even imagined. And I feel like somehow right now we're running with men and we're complaining and getting weary.
But there's going to be a day that God wants us to run even more difficult gantlet, a difficult challenge, and to use this time to be prepared for what lies ahead. I'm encouraged by that, William and Henry and I think that God's people need to be those who can meet these challenges head on. Be patient. Wait on the Lord. Trust in him and then be ready for running with horses whenever that challenge hits us.
William Norvell: Amen. Thank you so much, sir. Thanks for joining us and spending time with us.
Chuck Bentley: Thank you, William. Thank you, Henry. I just admire all the work that you do. I look up and you guys have just been everywhere having a huge impact on this space, whether it's the entrepreneurs, the athletes, the investors. I'm just so proud of the work you're doing. And I'm just blessed to call you friend.