Episode 106 - Crafting Your Purpose with John Coleman
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John Coleman is Managing Partner of Sovereign’s Capital. He is also a frequent writer and public speaker, with a recurring series of articles at Forbes and HBR. John previously published two books. His third book, “The HBR Guide to Crafting Your Purpose”, was published in January of 2022. John is going to be co-hosting the Faith Driven Investor Podcast. Before he does, we wanted to sit down with him and talk more about what it takes to craft your purpose.
All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific investment advice for any individual or organization.
Episode Transcript
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Investor podcast, as always, I'm here with Luke. Luke, you're calling in from Tucson, Arizona, so you've taken the show on the road.
Luke Roush: We haven't been out here with Kyle Pratt and Vermeer Southwest, but it's great to be on the show.
Henry Kaestner: That's awesome. That's another great Faith Driven Entrepreneur leading the business, creating making it happen. Lebanon employs Lebanon customers in a way that points to a God that loves them and loves big machines. And I'll tell you, I love the tour that Carl is taking us on. There's something about the little kid in me that just loves these kind of ditch digger type of big machinery. I got in the cockpit of one of those front end loaders. I felt like at five years old again, it was time. Travel was awesome.
Luke Roush: That's why I'm here basically for that feeling yet again.
Henry Kaestner: Yeah, yeah, that's super cool. So today is a special edition of the podcast because we are introducing the world to our great friend and partner John Coleman and John is such an encouragement to us personally. And then, of course, professionally. And John is joining the podcasting team, and he's going to be taking over as co-host. And many times he's going to be the lead host. And one of the things that you always want to do whenever you're involved in a project is to bring other people on board that are better than you are at whatever the task is that you're accomplishing. And this sounds like false modesty. And maybe you thinking, maybe it's not. Maybe you think it's actually a really low bar, and it probably is that, but John is a guy who really gets the space around and understands it at heart level. He, of course, is a committed follower of Christ. And it's just really encouraging for me. And maybe, Luke, you're speaking this a little bit too. But you know, when you have had your hand at the plow for a long time, as we have with sovereigns and then Faith Driven Investor, when somebody that has John's type of background and has been doing investments at such scale but says, you know, gosh, what you're doing is really important and kind of the zenith of his career, he comes over into what you're doing. That's amazingly encouraging.
Luke Roush: It is, indeed. You know, and I think the movement that we're all part of that all of our listeners are a part of is increasingly able to recruit, retain and excite some really world class folks from secular asset management firms that I think feel a sense of calling and purpose in mission to do something more. And there's certainly, I think, a lot of asset managers, a lot of advisors, a lot of other players in this space that are increasingly developing products that are interesting and sort of worthy of pulling a broader group of folks over. And like you, Jon also has a face made for radio and voice made for print journalism, so we're excited about that.
Henry Kaestner: Well, yes, true about me, very much not true about Typekit. We've already established that going to need to do some sort of a video release you get, I think, the best beard in the feature of an investment labar LaVar. Maybe also a low bar, I don't know. But you know, the other thing that gets me excited about Jon is that there are some number of national champions in the mix of what's going on in the Faith Driven Investor ecosystem. I immediately am thinking about Geoff Johns, who went to Duke University, where he was a national champion skydiver. Most people don't know about that.
Luke Roush: Yeah, I mean, that's a good bar bet. What was Geoff Johns, national champion at No. One, when the bar would guess sky diving? I don't think
Henry Kaestner: I mean, I think, well, it's going to be a good test of whether people are listening to Faith Driven Investor Praxis. Yeah. So he was a national champion skydiver, which I think is just crazy, crazy, cool. He, of course, for those of our listeners who do not know, co-founded the Impact Foundation with Amy Minnick, which is an incredible organization that helps people to invest their philanthropic capital. So I think if you're donor advised, fund money, your foundation money supporting ERG money, that money might do an incredible amount of good for God through investing. In some cases, the causes that have got is put on your heart to give money to. In some cases, you may go pretty far by investing, and most people don't know you can do that with your philanthropic capital as what Jeff does or what you mean and they're expanding can do remarkably well. It impact foundation and he, as you now know, is a national champion. But John Coleman, also a national champion and something that's a little bit more germane to what we're talking about right now, and that is he was a national champion in debate. Am I getting this right, John? By the way, China is, we're putting you on the spot with this kind of awkward question. Maybe it's not that awkward, dude. You're a national champion. That's incredibly cool. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the program. Welcome to the ministry. You've always been a part of it, but we're this is your coming out party.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'll thank you all. Look, I was going to say thanks for the kind words until Luke jumped in with the face made for radio comment partner, so on. But you guys know I'm just so humbled and honored and grateful to be working with folks like you and the rest of the team at sovereigns and the folks at Faith Driven Investor and just really excited about the mission that we're on together. So I feel remarkably privileged to be in this position and working with the all. So. Thank you for having me on the show today as well.
Henry Kaestner: Yes, yes, OK, pleasantries aside, national champion yes or no? Tell us about it.
John Coleman: Wasn't debate actually. So debate is more for people who are willing to respond to others. I was a speech national champion, which meant I just got to monologue for ten minutes without anyone responding, which is, as Luke knows how I prefer it these days as well.
Henry Kaestner: Oh, that's awesome.
Luke Roush: That's all that sounds like a good podcast host.
John Coleman: As long as you don't challenge anything. I say Luke. Yes.
Henry Kaestner: And so as Luke and I like to do with every one of our guests, we try to get an autobiographical flyover. So who are you where you come from? What motivates you? We've got a whole bunch of different questions. You are a investor. You're a family man, you're an author. We're going to get to all of these things. But tell us about where you come from.
John Coleman: Yeah, gosh. So I grew up in Georgia and Florida. I was actually born in Florida while my dad was at the University of Florida, getting his college degree. He was a rodeo cowboy at the time, although my mom made him retire from that profession when I was born and had a great upbringing, lived in the Panhandle for a little while, which is where my dad's family is from. Grew up mostly in Columbus, Georgia, which is about two hours south of Atlanta, and my mom's family's from all over Georgia and most exciting Vidalia, Georgia, known for its sweet onions, which hopefully people have had and, you know, had a great upbringing. There grew up in a Christian family and so was always raised around Christian principles. Like a lot of kids, I had my own ups and downs in my faith, you know, as I went away to college and those sorts of things, but never really found myself very far from it. You know, there were points in time where it differed a bit, but I got to go to a Christian high school. You know, it was really brought up around the habits of the Christian faith. And so a wonderful foundation there that I can thank my family for and my community for. After school, I really had no idea what I was going to do. I should have a better story about my lifelong calling to be an ambassador here, but I actually thought I might be a journalist or a think tank person or a professor and stumbled into my first real job after college. I was desperate for a job. I was ending a summer job and needed an apartment in like two weeks. I was losing the apartment they had provided. And so I took the first job that was offered to me as I interviewed, which was as a quantitative energy trader at a little hedge fund up in the D.C. area. It took me about a week to learn that I was the world's worst quantitative energy trader. It fortunately took my firm a little bit longer than that, so I had some time to prepare. But, you know, I was then able to know to explore a bunch of different stuff for my career. I spent some time at McKinsey and Company. I did some graduate studies in both public policy and business and then spent about nine years at a firm called Invesco that did diversified money management globally before coming to sovereigns. In the midst of all that, I managed to meet a lovely woman who became my wife, Jackie Coleman. She has traditionally been in education and counseling. She was actually a marriage counselor when we were dating, which led to the most stressful application process of my life, which was to be Jackie's husband as she was grading all my, all my tests that she put me through as we were thinking about getting engaged. And and yeah, we've had four kids over the last nine years, so we have four little kids. We love to write. We love the outdoors. We love to travel. We actually just got back from Israel yesterday, my first trip to Israel, which was really life changing, and we have a great life. And then I was fortunate enough to run into Luke a few years ago, and he didn't scare me off before I met you, Henry, which is the good news. And reconnected with you guys a couple of years ago and was just really, really fortunate that you all invited me to join the sovereign's team about 13 months ago, now last February. And I am just so grateful for that and have had a blast so far
Henry Kaestner: was a no brainer. And I'll speak for Luke. Absolutely some number of people that listeners may not be familiar with Invesco big institutional player. Tell us a little bit about what Invesco does and then the role that you played there.
John Coleman: Yeah, I had a few different jobs there, so Invesco is about a one point three or four trillion dollar asset manager globally. They manage about that much in assets, and they do basically everything from kind of ETF and index provision on one side, as the S&P 500, they have the QQQ. So if you've been watching the NCAA tournament, you know the Nasdaq QQQ all the way over to actively managed mutual funds, fixed income and then into private markets. So things like direct real estate and private equity and fund of funds and venture and those sorts of things. So really, a full spectrum investment manager, I have. A few jobs over the course of time while I was there, I was our head of strategy for a while globally. Worked a little bit on our digital businesses, things like robo advice, et cetera. And some of the acquisitions that we did as a firm and then really ended my time there working in two areas. One was our global institutional client business where I was a member of that kind of operating committee there. We managed about $360 billion for institutions around the world, things like sovereign wealth funds or insurance companies. And then on the other side of the house simultaneously held a job in private markets, helping build out our capability in real estate, private equity, private credit, etc., including running our fund of funds in secondary capability there for a while. So I had a great, diverse experience. There is a big global firm, so I learned about all elements of the business, which was incredibly helpful and it was a great platform. I think for the work we're doing now, just giving me a good understanding of that marketplace.
Luke Roush: So John, on the one hand, you know, having a job like that with a firm like that would seem to be, that's kind of what everybody aspires to, right? That's kind of the goal. That's the end game. What led you to feel as though you really wanted to be doing something different? Maybe share a bit about that.
John Coleman: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it was a great firm and really appreciated my colleagues there, you know, at this stage of my career. There are a few things driving my professional decisions. One was will come to it in a little bit. In 2019, I actually started writing a book on purpose for Harvard Business Review. And in the midst of writing that COVID hit and was thinking about career things, and it really convicted me about just making sure that at this point in my career, I was really aligning my personal values and my sense of mission and my purpose with an organization in a deeper way. To be honest, before I started talking to you all, I didn't know that I could have the kind of integration that I have now with my faith and with investing, you know, that seemed like a pipe dream. I thought I might have to go to a nonprofit or something like that, and at the intersection of those two wasn't. I wasn't able to do that right until I found y'all. And I also had this belief that I wanted to go out and help build something to join a smaller firm where I could be a part of the team that was really helping to grow and build it. And again, you know, the path to sovereigns was even greater than I expected because we're not just building a firm, I think we're trying to build an entire type of investing in and we have a mission that's broader than us in a movement. And so, you know, those two things coming together with the idea, you know, I'm a little bit further along in my career now. I know how important it is to just love the people you work with every day and to be excited every morning to get up and work with the people you want to work with. And you know, the mission alongside the opportunity to build along with working with the best people that I could possibly hope for, really created just the perfect situation for me to want to come over.
Luke Roush: One of the things that I think you've pushed us on and stepping back actually from sovereigns, I think you're starting to push a broader dialog around. Is this idea that as investors, we aren't in a kind of values neutral arena, that's not the space that the world pushes us into. Would you mind just sharing a bit on this construct that all investing is impact investing, which I've heard you give that talk? Others who are listening to the show probably heard you give that talk, but maybe just unpack that a bit.
John Coleman: Yeah. You know, I think in popular language right now, a lot of people think of the term impact investing as concessionary investing, right? It's where you have a mission and you're trying to accomplish that mission with your money, but you might be willing to sacrifice return in pursuit of that mission. My belief if you look at the mainstream world of ESG investing, environmental social governance investing, which is now sweeping the world, is in fact that all of your investment dollars already have an impact. There's really no neutral portfolio, right? And this has been true throughout history, but I think people are becoming more aware of it. Every dollar you put to work has an impact for good or for bad. And the only question is whether you're going to direct that impact or you're going to leave it to chance or you're going to allow another institution to have that impact on your behalf. You know, what's interesting is I think the mainstream investment management world has realized this in really dramatic fashion recently, and it's actually the faith aligned investment ecosystem, particularly the Christian investment ecosystem that has been a little slow to come around to this. So some of the statistics I like to throw out there, Luke, you know, if you look at managed assets in the world in 2020, there were about one hundred and three trillion dollars in managed assets around the world. Now that's probably north of there. I guess it's somewhere around 120 trillion or something like that. Fully a third of those assets. So thirty five trillion were in explicitly ESG, environmental social governance investment strategies in 2020. So fully a third of the managed assets in the world. We're explicitly targeting impact of some sort. And I would argue that even outside of that, that other 60 trillion in assets was similarly having an impact. So if you dig into what makes an explicit environmental, social and governance strategy that can be things like carbon neutrality, it can be negative screening like keeping fossil fuels out of your portfolio or positive screening, like supporting renewable energies on the environmental side. On the social side, it can be things like pursuing diversity and inclusion in your company or diverse boards of directors, or it can be excluding companies based on human rights issues in the mainstream ESG world. And then on the governance side, it can be diversity in the executive suite. It can be incentive systems, et cetera. But those are explicit strategies that has really blown up, and there are a number of approaches to that now around the world. And so you get this $35 billion, everything from basic negative screening to positive screening for the types of companies you want to invest in somatic investing where you say this is a renewable energy fund or this is a fund that focuses on carbon neutral companies all the way up, then to activism right or control like you would see in private equity. And so this ESG ecosystem in the mainstream world has really flourished. And as you dig into that, you know, a lot of your institutions on the Christian side, they would agree with some of those things, right? I think very few of us don't want a great environment, right? We may have different approaches to that, but that's what we want. But be there may be unaware actually of how they're having an impact. And I won't drone on about this too much. But if you look even at the rest of managed assets, you know, think about passive investing like your ETF or index exposure. A lot of people view that as neutral. I'm in the S&P 500. But if you dig under that and look at what constitutes that, you know, the top 10 investment managers in the world control 30 percent of the S&P 500. So there are 10 investment managers that control a third of the biggest publicly traded companies in the world. And if you look at the big three, which are BlackRock, Vanguard and State Street, which control most of the big passive holdings, they're around eight point eight percent of each S&P 500 company in the country, and they're the largest shareholder, taken together of 88 percent of the S&P 500. And if you look even beyond their ESG, what they're doing with that is they're using their proxies to vote, they're issuing corporate resolutions, they're pressuring companies to do things. And so I encourage people to unpack their portfolios and they'll see even if they think they're not really doing anything. For the most part, all of us are having some impact with our portfolio now, an explicit ESG strategies or other strategies. We often just don't realize it.
Luke Roush: So one follow up on that, John, a lot of our listeners and I would put myself in this camp up until, you know, only a few years ago would think that whether it's a public company or whether it's a privately held company of really any size it, what can I do right? Like how much am I really going to hold? Am I really able to kind of have my voice be heard? Maybe just kind of unpack, because there are a couple of noteworthy examples recently of relatively small stakes swinging a big stick within large companies. Any comments you'd make on that?
John Coleman: Yeah, you know, I do think it's overwhelming to kind of look at BlackRock, State Street, Vanguard, these multitrillion dollar companies, Invesco and say, of course, they can have influence, but like, what influence can I have? But I think one of the most remarkable things about public and private markets is that with a relatively small pool of capital, you can have a massive impact to sort of the public company side because that's the hardest to get your mind around. When you buy a company in private markets, you kind of get that you can have influence on that company. But public markets, it seems like I've got to move billions and billions of dollars to have an impact. There was a great example recently of a group called Engine Number One, which is a hedge fund effectively located on the West Coast. That hedge fund is around the size of Sovereign's Capital, the firm that you two founded, and that I'm happy to join today and with a $58 million investment point zero two percent of its shares. They invested in ExxonMobil and were effectively able to get three board seats at Exxon to try and push a more radically pro-environmental policy within that group. So 0.02 percent of shares if memory serves. And yet, because they were able to lobby a number of passive holders to vote with them, they issued a series of corporate resolutions. They were able to lobby for board seats and they were able to effectively take over not majority control of the board, but a substantial plurality of the board to try and enact this new, more radically pro-environmental set of policies at Exxon. And so that's an example of what in the grand scheme of things is a very small asset manager and activist hedge fund that was able through a pro-environmental activist hedge fund that was able to take over one of the. Largest energy companies in history and really dramatically change its policies. And then on the private side, look, I think it's something you and I see every day, right, which is when you own 10 or 20 percent of a company which Elon Musk now does of Twitter, which we could get into, I guess, at some point. But in the private sphere, or if you've taken a majority, you get a board seat, you may even have control of the board. You've got a close relationship with the CEO of that company or the founder, and you really have an opportunity to shape it. And, you know, in the context of the sovereign's portfolio, what that means is we want to demonstrate love of God and love of neighbor through everything that we do to lead to human flourishing. And so that's hopefully employee friendly policies is building an inspirational company with a real vision for the world, and it can be different from a culture perspective. And so I think it's easier to look at the big numbers and get a little pessimistic about your ability to have an impact. But once you unpack those both in private and public companies, there's just a remarkable opportunity to have an impact.
Henry Kaestner: So I want to impact that a little bit more with sovereigns. So if people are following along right now, they may or may not know a lot about. One of the things that there probably are pretty sure of is that it doesn't have one point three or one point four trillion dollars of assets under management. So you're going from running strategy and one firm with a lot to something that has something much less. And yet there must be some sort of working theory of change and impact that you see at sovereigns. You hinted at it there in just a little bit ago. But just unpack it more. What do you see as the future of Christian led companies and the ability for investors to come alongside them? Why is this something whose time has come?
John Coleman: Yeah. Henry, you're great about reminding us that the two greatest commandments are love god and love your neighbor. Right? And Jesus reminded us, Well, Jesus first reminded us of that. I guess in the new you provide, it's somewhat, Jesus said. But you know, and then he elaborates that everyone's your neighbor, right? There is no one who's left out of that. And I think that is actually a really inspirational vision for the impact that investment dollars can have. Because ultimately, what are you investing in? You're investing in people and leaders, in the employees of companies and the customers that they serve and the vendors that they serve. And I think we live in an environment now where too often those relationships are transactional or they're not founded on any sort of values or morals. And so they lead to environments like we're seeing now with the great resignation where, you know, I write a lot on purpose, which will come to you. Some surveys indicate that only around 15 percent of people one five percent of people globally are engaged in their work. And that's because companies and employees have chartered a mission or a culture that they feel is compelling. That's bigger than them. I think his Christian investors, you know, the message of the gospel is good news. It's good news. And I think our responsibility is to try and translate that good news into the way that companies work right in the way that companies live out their mission and values. They had the good fortune of sitting down recently with a guy named Michael Eisenberg, who I know has been on the podcast before an extraordinary investor in Israel, a person of Jewish faith, a really sincere Jewish faith. And you know, he was postulating that capitalism, which I think we all believe in here really was difficult to have exists in a flourishing way outside of the context of a deeply value centered society. And some might even say something like a Judeo-Christian society, although there are other sources values that those values really anchor society so that capitalism can flourish within it, and capitalism without those aspects can actually become a very transactional thing and can become something that takes advantage of people if you're not careful. And I think what we would hope to chart is a philosophy of investing at sovereigns, whether through public markets or fund of funds. Invest in your private equity or venture where we can partner with founders who are sincere in their faith and companies that are sincere in their faith to create better environments for employees and companies that charter a bigger vision for the world.
Henry Kaestner: Indeed, bringing about God's kingdom on Earth as it is in heaven while bearing witness to the king and just fired up to have you on board and running the firm with Luke on that. One of the other things that, of course, Solomon's gets his opportunity to do is to come alongside men and women who are running in leading companies and helping them to borrow a term craft their purpose. And when I think about somebody who might know something about that, I go back to see if somebody might have written a book on it. Indeed, as it turns out, you have talked to us about the concept of helping somebody to craft their purpose. And this book that you've brought out with the Harvard Business Review.
John Coleman: Well, this all dates back. You know, you and Luke are athletic guys, Henry. I know your your family's got a great one of
Henry Kaestner: us, more so than the other. Like, like the audience. Try to figure that out by Googling Luke Roush is 40 time.
John Coleman: Yeah, it was, you know, I think he said it was like a four. One or three, nine or something, Henry, these
Luke Roush: stories, it's like it's like fish stories, they just get better over time. I'm going to let Henry be my publicist. I might get drafted this year of Henry, where my agent
Henry Kaestner: yelled, I saw Terrell Owens this morning. Terrell Owens, at age 48, is going to come back at us as if Tom Brady can do it. I can do it. That means that, Luke, I think Terrell Owens is older than Luke.
John Coleman: Luke, you got your chance here.
Luke Roush: Most people, I can't remember how old I am.
John Coleman: I heard he might be signing a contract with the Dolphins, so we'll keep an eye on that. You know, when, when instead of sports, he were good at speech in college, you have to find nerdy hobbies. And so my hobby since I was a kid is writing. I love to write, I love to communicate. And so it's been something I do in my spare time. My first book was actually a Christian book that I wrote in my early 20s.
Luke Roush: Well, tell us about that book before you get into the other book. Tell us about that book.
John Coleman: Well, again, the intersection of Chip Ingram.
Henry Kaestner: I think about it right now.
John Coleman: I wish, I wish. It is a book called How to Argue Like Jesus from crossword books and a friend and I, Joe Carter, who I had actually met online. This is the golden age of the blog and I had met online. We're both really interested in this idea of rhetoric and Jesus in the New Testament. And so we we talked about the intersection of kind of an Aristotelian model of rhetoric in the New Testament. The way that Jesus communicated is you might know just from the fact that probably no one listening to this has actually read the book. It did not sound like a purpose-driven life. And so that set me off on my career journey. I had to keep my day job. But, you know, it kept me writing in about 10 years ago. I developed a relationship with a publisher called Harvard Business Review, and I was in school at the time at HBS in 2009. Actually, when we wrote our first book with them, we published a book on next generation leadership called Passion and Purpose. And that started me on this topic of purpose first as an investigation. And then secondly, writing with HPR. And they were really kind to kind of let me partner with an editor there. I'd write maybe five or six articles a year for NPR online, all about leadership and personal development, professional development. They're extraordinary at those topics. And in 2015 or so, I started writing about what I thought of as kind of a new way of thinking about purpose. Right? The idea that you don't find your purpose, you build it or you craft it, that it's not some pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that you wait for, but it's something that exists in all parts of your life that you need to take responsibility for. Those articles became really popular. And so as I was talking to my editors about writing another book, they asked if I'd flesh those out into what became a book called the HPR Guide to Crafting Your Purpose. So if you've been through the airport and you've seen the little guides that HPR puts out, it's one of those in the whole book is kind of a practical approach to how people who aren't getting a great enough sense of meaning in their personal and professional lives can rethink the way that they view purpose and begin to craft it more in their lives and live more fulfilling lives, both both at work and away from work.
Luke Roush: What I love about the book I love a lot of things about the book, but I love the fact that it moves from being sort of this like passive. While I hope I find it someday to being an active kind of shaping, reshaping and a continual discovery. We talk a little bit about it being actively faithful versus willful in that movement to more of kind of an activity that individuals and leaders are engaging in. I think was really impactful for me as I went through the book.
John Coleman: You know, that's at the core of it, Luke, is to help people restore a sense of agency. You know, I think it is easy these days, especially you work in a big corporation or you're in a country where you don't feel in control and you can lose a sense of agency. The idea that you actually do have some say in the way that your life turns out that you do have some control over it. Not in a negative, prideful sense, but in the sense that you can take actions that can improve your life in the way that you experience life. And obviously, as a Christian, I believe that every single life has extraordinary value. Right? We are all created in God's image. We're endowed with this dignity as a result that everyone has, that they have a purpose and a mission for their life. And I think unfortunately, through popular culture, we have been induced to believe that purpose is a thing that you find that it's passive. Right? It's I think of it as like the Hollywood version of purpose, which is actually kind of romantic when you see it in a movie, the kind of destructive when you're trying to incorporate it in your life. And what I mean by that is there's this great Mark Twain quote that's attributed to him. I don't think it's actually his quote that the two greatest days in your life are the day you're born. In the day you find out why. Right? And you're like, Oh, that's really romantic. But on the other side, it induces a ton of angst, right? Because you're just waiting for that one day to find out why you were born. Right? We can talk about there's a faith interpretation of that. That's different, but that's not what Twain is talking about, I think. And you see the movies, right? It's Luke Skywalker kind of live in a boring life until he finds out he's a Jedi or neo living in The Matrix in. It's disrupted and, you know, a purpose falls in his lap. And so there are all these people out there looking for that one thing to fall in their lap to change their lives. But in doing so, they're getting a lot of angst about finding that one thing. And so instead, you know, the core of my message is threefold. One is purpose isn't a thing that you find. It's something you built, right, that you have agents and you have control. Purpose exists all around you. It's up to us to take control of that and build a life that's meaningful. The second is that purpose isn't singular that one thing you're waiting for, but plural. Right? Most of the people have a lot of angst about their purpose, already have a lot of purpose in their lives. They're just not seeing it right. It's your kids. It's your family, it's your wife, it's your friends, it's your community. It's the homeless shelter down the street that you serve soup in. It's your hobbies. It's all this beautiful stuff in your life that if you're too anxious about your professional purpose, you can lose sight of and even in your profession, it can be multiple things like relationships with colleagues, etc. So it's plural. And in the final myth I deconstruct is this idea that purpose is a single thing, you know the two greatest days in your life for the day you're born. In the day, you find out why. It's like one thing that will change your life forever. And instead, I think that purpose changes over time. Right? Our purpose is a high schooler or as a college student. It's different than when we're young professional. It's different than when we have a family. It's different than when you retire and move into our second mountain, as David Brooks describes it. And then instead of feeling anxious about that or like, we've wasted time that we would just embrace those shifts of purpose. And so really, in those three ways, I encourage people to fundamentally rethink the way that they view meaning and to embrace their agency in terms of how to achieve that.
Henry Kaestner: John talked to us about the role that we, as investors, can play in helping entrepreneurs craft their purpose and just in different leaders in the marketplace. What's that dynamic so that we can get involved earlier on in a Luke Skywalker career and earlier on and working with Keanu Reeves? Just refine it a bit more.
John Coleman: Oh gosh, I'm the new kid on the block, so I hope you too will chime in. You've been at this even longer than I have, and you're extraordinary at it. Henry, you might even say that you wrote the book on this, so I hope you'll all weigh in as well.
Henry Kaestner: You know, I would look for riding the Ford. No, but we collectively wrote the book. And by collectively, I mean, there are lots and lots of people in this movement that and I think about Chip Ingram, I think about Tim Keller, I think about Andy Crouch, Dave Blanchard there. A whole bunch of different people who are really fired up about this concept of what is cultural change look like in our entrepreneurs. Indeed, the tipping point the point end of cultural transformation in the marketplace was that look like and I may be one of very many authors in that collaborative book, but this is a movement. Aslan is on the move. A whole bunch of people are waking up to this. You did so much so that you left this incredible job in Invesco. But what role does an investor and whether they invest in a firm like a faith driven investment fund or they do individual angel investing? What is the call to working with these entrepreneurs and leaders?
John Coleman: Yeah, I see it a couple of ways. And look, I'd actually love to hear you riff on this a little bit, too. One is, as you said, to help encourage an entrepreneur, you know, be an entrepreneur or a CEO is a remarkably stressful job. It is a remarkably stressful job. There are a ton of constraints on your time. You're responsible for a lot. The world moves quickly, you're working very hard, and it is easy to get sucked in to this idea that your identity is your job and that you either fail or succeed as a person based on the success of your job. You know, in the book, I talk about this in the context of one reason it's important not to have your purpose be a single thing is because when that single thing falls apart, your company fails. You lose your job, you lose even a relationship. Your whole identity fails if it's not anchored in something broader. And I think in the Christian context, what you articulated, Henry, you know, the one thing we can be certain of is that the thing that won't fail is our identity in Christ. And so that is probably the one thing that you can anchor to that can be certain won't fail. And then that can exhibit itself in multiple ways. And so I think helping entrepreneurs to anchor themselves in that identity and the dignity that they have in Christ. And then is an outflowing of that in this idea that they are whole people, right, that they have families, that they should have families, that they have a faith, that they have communities that they're investing in and that their entire identity doesn't rise and fall based on the company. The second is that they can shape the values of the company in a way that they know to be true aligned with their values. I think many people feel very shy about that, bringing their personal values and morals to work. And I think instead, it can be the good news of shaping a company. And then third is encouraging those folks then to take that seriously enough to help the individuals within that company also craft their own purposes, also find their own identities. And also live more full lives, just as the investors are encouraging the entrepreneurs or CEOs, and so it had this ripple effect where if the CEO or the founder of the entrepreneur is that way and can help everyone within the company live that way, you know, they're then a witness to everyone else that they come into contact with and you can impact thousands of lives.
Henry Kaestner: So, John, one of the things that we do in all of our podcasts, of course, is to point people back, just as you are doing with these entrepreneurs to God's work, believing that the Bible is alive, God speaks to us through it, and it doesn't necessarily need to be something this morning, but maybe something recently about something you've read through God's word that has really impacted you and that you might offer up as an encouragement to others that might also continue to seek out God through time and scripture as well.
John Coleman: Yeah. So one of my favorite verses that I encountered again the other day is quite a popular one, so I won't claim points for originality. But it's Micah six eight where God commands us to do justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with God. And I think what's convicting about that for me is there are so many ways to overcomplicate our faith and our Christian walk, right? And it's such a simple command which is just to do the right thing to love mercy, not just practice mercy, but love mercy, to feel joy in giving mercy to others and to receiving mercy and to walk humbly with God, right, which is to submit yourself to him and follow him. I felt that acutely when we were visiting the garden to get Simone, where Jesus submitted himself to God's plan and humility and to think, Oh my gosh, how much easier for me to see myself in humility than it was for him the burden that he was taking on. And so that verse has really resonated with me lately just because of its simplicity in kind of giving a command for how I should live my life. That can be incredibly practical. It's the way that I deal with myself and others.
Henry Kaestner: Yes, no points for originality. I'm glad you didn't go with John 3:16, although John three six. Amazing, but you did a great job. You did a great job of unpacking Michael six eight. And that is really cool, and I'll jump on your bandwagon. There is something really special about going on to the Holy Land, and it shouldn't be a requirement because I know their faith traditions might have is a requirement. And yet you kind of understand and appreciate why they might. There's something really special about being where these different stories that we read about goes by will actually happen, and I think that God speak to us through his word. I'll never forget reading the Beatitudes with my father overlooking the Sea of Galilee from this sermon on the Mount from the Mount. Yes, thank you for sharing. It's awesome to have you with us. I'm so excited about your leadership and hosting on FDE. I am grateful that we gave our audience a chance to learn a bit about you. And God bless you, brother.
John Coleman: Thank you all very much. Great to see all today.