Episode 195 - When Death Knocked Twice: Travis Penfield's Blueprint for Scaling During Crisis
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Can you build a thriving business while facing back-to-back life-threatening crises? Travis Penfield did exactly that, transforming his brush with death from a brain tumor and his wife's cancer battle into clarity for scaling 49 Financial to 200+ advisors. His blueprint for bridging the trillion-dollar advisor succession gap prioritizes mentorship over metrics, revealing how personal trials became his greatest business advantage.
Join us for this special joint episode of the Faith Driven Investor & Entrepreneur podcast.
Please note that the views expressed by the hosts and guests are their own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Faith Driven Investor.
All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific investment advice for any individual or organization.
Episode Transcript
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Travis Penfield I think that maybe a lot of entrepreneurs out there, it is so easy, even as believers, to make our business our identity. And it's such a sneak.
Richard Cunningham Travis, you mentioned your bride's cancer over the last couple of years. You had a brain tumor in 2016.
Travis Penfield In a different place in your faith when each one of you experienced the thought of losing the other one.
Justin Forman You're stewarding a business before. You're steering a business after. What's the BCAD of how you steward a business after going through things like that?
Travis Penfield I think that since that happened to her, the post, I guess, mindset in running the business is.
Intro Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast.
Justin Forman As faith-driven entrepreneurs, oftentimes we just don't stop until something stops us. Today's guest, Travis Penfield, talks about these tough moments in life where everything stopped in a moment to care for family, to care himself in these tough times, and how that gave him a bigger perspective of what it is that we are really living for as faith- driven entrepreneurs. So we're here at South by Southwest having this conversations. Let's go ahead and get started. With today's episode. So speaking of life experiences, not all of us get to have the week that it sounds like you just had. Yeah. You gotta tell, we gotta start here. This is important.
Travis Penfield Okay, well, maybe. I did learn a lot. I had a buddy of mine that a few weeks ago said, you know, I'm going to change your life in a text message. I said, what are you going to do?
Justin Forman Three easy payments, yeah, yeah.
Travis Penfield Yeah, three easy payments just you can sell my my beauty care Yeah, that's funny. And I'm like, what is it dude? And he's like you love golf and I know your dad's here as Jack Nicklaus like my dad's always wanted to be like the guy He's like he knows all about him all these things and he's Like we're going to have ten of us are going to go hang out with John Maxwell and Jack Nicklaus at his club In Jupiter, Florida called the Bears Club where all the guys live and Yeah, we're gonna get there. We're gonna do lunch ask a lot of questions. He's gonna do a putting and arrange session and then we'll go play, and then him and Barbara are gonna host at his house, and you know, we got some surprises for you there. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, you are texting me, right, like, cause you know Maxwell, he's got some good stuff. You know, he has got so much leadership stuff, and there's so much stuff that I've wanted to talk to you. Just a couple, maybe 92. Maybe 92. Yeah.
Richard Cunningham Where does the Golden Bear and Maxwell's combo come together?
Travis Penfield Um, I guess they've been buddies for a long time, um, and you know, they're, they kind of play off each other's foundations of what they're trying to do. So Maxwell's a quip and then, you know Nicholas's are so into, uh, beating cancer for kids. And, uh they knew about my wife's breast cancer, you know last couple of years. And so I think that was part of it is they knew I'd have a heart for like both like leadership throughout the world, like spreading the gospel through leadership and then let's end cancer. Let's do this thing. Right. So it was, it was inspiring. It was a great time.
Richard Cunningham So tell us about the experience from a golf standpoint. Any highlights? Did you choke in front of Jack? Did you get some good pointers? Also from a leadership and some of the wisdom you got.
Travis Penfield My goodness, yeah, on the golf course, I will tell you, don't try to hit a putt around the goat. I hit this first putt. I mean, it's a 10 foot putt and I hit a 15 feet by. I mean this really, just those of you that don't golf at all. Rimmer in hand. And then he keeps telling me, he's like, dude, like just relax. I'm like, do you know who you are? Like you've done beautiful things with this very club that I'm about to not do beautiful things. And And it was just great, and I mean, we had a lot of fun. It is very difficult on the golf course when he tells you while you're setting up for a shot that your grip is too tight. So then you're like, okay. So I'll just kind of lighten, and he's like, yeah, I don't like where your elbow is. And he's saying all these things, so by the time I hit it, it just dribbles under the ground. So we had ton of fun, I think life lessons, you know. I asked him a question. Earlier on in the day and I'm like, you know, Jack, you've, you've won all these different things. Like tell me about the winning. Like, tell me, like, how did you do it? Like all these things. He goes, Travis, what do I care how much I've won? Like, that's not my legacy. And I said, well, what do you mean? It's not your legacy. And he's like, man, I made a commitment to my kids that even if I was going to be a professional golfer, like they were going to know their dad, like know their dad. And, uh, I've made the same commitment to my grandchildren. And um, man he, he was talking about them. When I would ask him questions about like a win or shot I knew he had. Yeah, so I did this, I did that. And then I'd be like, so what about this grand kid? He just light up. Oh, wow. And so then I asked him, like, you know, they're celebrating 65 years of marriage this year. And I said, you gotta give me a pointer. Like, what is it? And his sweet wife was there too. And both of them say this comment of 95-5, and it's this idea that it's 95% give, 5% take, and if both people are doing that, you're gonna have this awesome marriage. And they, I mean, 65 years, the love that they had for each other, They're just like, the intimacy they have. I mean, you should have seen him like walk to dinner. It takes him a little bit. But like, it's like the most beautiful thing to just watch them kind of like in life, step by step together. And so he's a legend. So many different things I learned. So many awesome takeaways even for Maxwell. But I think the biggest thing was like, I went home to my wife and I was like babe, I love you.
Travis Penfield This has been so inspiring. Being 13 years, I just, 65 years? You know, you just kind of think about that and you're like, man, that's a lot, raising all those kids and grandkids and to still have that deep love. That is more impressive than him being the goat in golf, I thought. So it was, I say a top five experience and then my wife reminded me, well, you know, Jesus, you got married to me and you have three daughters. So which one of us is getting the cut? So I'd like to say a Top Six time of my life.
Justin Forman There you go. Well said. Isn't it fascinating? Like, I mean, we fall in love with the highlights. We fall in love with the moments where fans were enthralled by it. Yeah. Yet the thing that at least I'll speak for this at 44 is like. I'm as much interested in that. Yeah, the untold story of faithfulness and obedience to do that, like to have all that accomplishments and tensionality with your craft. Come on and keep that stuff together like. Like, that's a big deal. That's bigger than many of those trophies on that case. Absolutely.
Travis Penfield Well, and I think for young guys like me, I think that that's the thing that it seems like he cared about most to teach us, you know? And it was like the game of golf is just so secondary. Like that's a platform that God gave him, and he happens to be the best at it. But I agree with you. It is all the in between, because the more people that I meet that are kind of like the hero types, I'd say the more often I'm disappointed. You start asking about it, and they're self-absorbed. You know, doing different drugs and different things and whatever, and you're like, well, this is what it takes to maintain. And then you got a guy that's like, well, I'm gonna have a cheese omelet. And you're, like, cheese omelet it is, It's a strange dinner order. But just a total stud.
Richard Cunningham That's awesome. Travis, you mentioned your bride's cancer over the last couple of years. You had a brain tumor in 2016. Lord has dealt you guys some pretty wild seasons of health and things like that. First off, how are y'all doing? And just kind of give us some of the backstory there and all that God's taught you in the midst of those trials.
Travis Penfield Yeah, brother, I mean, it is I would never want it to happen to anyone. But gosh, right, the testing of your faith, it does develop that perseverance. And so I think that because we're both good, I guess it's easy to say, it puts you in a different place in your faith when each one of you experience the thought of losing the other one within a day, right? And Jacqueline's doing great. So here in a few weeks, we'll be celebrating two years. And for anybody that understands the cancer battle, you gotta get to that five year mark. And so two years is a big deal. But you know, it's really interesting. Like, you know Matthew Six talks about like anxiety and you know like the birds of the air and the flowers of the field and like, you're not gonna add a single day of your life. And yet the thing I think I'm still struggling through and I think Jacqueline does better than me is like, for me the brain thing was easier because it was just happening to me and then I wake up and they're like, hey dude, like I think you're gonna be okay but it's four months, you're going to have to learn how to talk and walk and do all these things again. Um, but for her to watch that occur. Like there's still times I would say monthly over the last two years where it'll be like 2 a.m. And I'll just wake up with like this crazy sweat and just start crying and not really know why. And like just a level of anxiety that I've definitely, I don't think I've felt in my life. Just this like, what they don't tell you is you're so excited when they say you're cured. And then they say, he got this five years to see that it doesn't recur. No one really I think warned me that the anxiety of this five year is pretty crazy. You know, I mean she even gets like a sneeze or a stomach ache and you immediately go to like some type of cancer Right and it recurs But she's such a fighter, you know, she did so The way she cared for our three daughters who were really young You know during that she you know she's doing the chemo and you know her hair was starting to fall out and she made the decision to like make it a moment with the kids to like cut her hair and then shave her hair, and do all those types of things and Yeah, you know, they almost they almost like didn't fully recognize what was happening. She's doing such a good job. One of the moments you know strange that the things you remember in these really kind of dark hard seasons. You know, it was still really patchy on top of her head. Like, you know, you see like bald people that go through I guess I'm bald always. So but like you see that and it's like patchy and all those things. And I was like, well, babe, I'm I'm decent at shaving ahead. You know, I'm good at that, you know, practice. Yes, some practice over here. Good Lord. Decided to make me ball to my 20s. And so, man, I held my wife in the shower, like slowly shaving her head, because they're like, if you get a neck while you're on chemo and stuff, it's really bad. You know, they just don't, the red blood cell counts are too low. And man, that is probably one of the like, most beautiful, heartbreaking, sad, lowest four or five minutes of my life. Sitting there shaving her had, kind of contemplating, like holding her. I can't, I don't know, I can even go there. Like, like emotionally, it's almost too hard to but it got it got kind of bad for her says about three or four months into it. She's one of the types of body types that can't do chemo, which is not all that normal. So the doctor calls us and they say, you guys need to come in her red blood cell count is at a certain level, that it's no longer worried about cancer we're worried about like, can she even make it? Wow, you know, and so They tell me, they're like, Travis, two things. First, she for the next week cannot be around anyone. She's quarantined because a single cold could take her out. And then she's like, the oncologist is like, and one thing I want you to prepare for is it's not looking good. And so you need to take your kids somewhere. And my advice to you is, when you see husbands like you that are working, that don't necessarily. Like take care of the kids full time. When a spouse goes out and passes away, like it can get really, really, really bad when she passes. So I'm gonna ask you to take them somewhere for a week and I need you to live that whole week as if she's gone. I need to go there even though she's still alive or I don't think it's gonna be good just seeing your reactions to all this. I just don't get the vibe you're gonna be in a good spot. And so I take the kids to San Diego and my sweet parents told me that, you know, I should take them somewhere where we do much activities, of Lego lands and all the things. And I'm crying in between every ride, trying to like picture this like, am I gonna work? Am I gonna? And I was just kinda like, I guess I'll just stop and I'll raise these beautiful three girls and just kinda, who knows? And so I get back and they tell us that what they found out was her cancer. They had put so much chemo in her that it was almost the analogy was that it like, if cancer is this hotbed, chemo is this like ice that goes in there and they just had put too much in it and they didn't know. And so she has this immediate, you know, surgery, mastectomy, and she comes in the doctor and says, hey, this isn't how it's supposed to be, but three things need to happen. And she's going to be considered cure, but we don't know if it'll happen. And I'm waiting in this room, and this is to kind of tie back the brain surgery, you know four by four walls, just waiting for her to get out of surgery to hear like, more or less, is she going to make it or not? Or are we kind of on a downhill slope? And I am listening to, you guys know United Pursuit, that simple gospel album. I don't know, 10, 15 years ago. So before my brain surgery in 16, I was just listening to that nonstop, it like calmed me. And all of a sudden that's what's on my headphones. And it was such a blur over that time, I realized I was on the exact same floor in the exact hospital where my brain surgeries was. Listening to the same song, whatever that was seven years later. And there was a piece that like, I'm not one of those people I feel like I've ever like heard God visibly or any of those things, but this was one of these moments that I'm like. At a level of peace and then Dr. Carl within seconds and like, everything's good. So we've been just celebrating that for two years. Wow. Holy cow, what a story, man.
Justin Forman Such a powerful story. How does your perspective of just everything else change? Like, I mean, you're stewarding a business before, you're steering a business after. What's the BCAD kind of version of how you steward a business, after going through things like that?
Travis Penfield Yeah, I think, whether I wanted to admit it, I think that maybe a lot of entrepreneurs out there, it is so easy, even as believers, to make our business our identity. And it's such a sneaky thing. It kind of reminds me of that old Cast and Crown song that says, it's a slow fade. So it's little tiny things every day, where you come home a little later, or you answer that email instead of being with your kids at dinner. It's these little moments that we let the business become our identity, And, um... Man, I think that since that happened to her, my, the post, I guess, mindset in running the businesses, if the business doesn't make it, it's okay. If the business, doesn't hit that growth goal, it's OK. Whereas before, if it didn't, it would just ruin me. And now it's like, no, cause I'm going home to my bride and I'm just gonna be able to see her and talk to her and business can go up down. I could just not even have a business and I got it. I got what I wanted in life and the Lord has given me this beautiful woman. And so, yeah, I would say I feel more grounded. You know, Timothy Keller has that counterfeit God's book where he talks about all these idols. And I think that for me, post her cancer, I think I was reminded again, last time I was remind of it was that brain surgery. It's like, dude, I'm like an idol factory. And I the biggest one that I struggle with is approval of man. And I that what's kind of gone away since that cancer is like, You start to just realize who's for you and who's not. And you start to just realize that like, life can't be for others' approval, because you can get one call and be taken out for four, six, seven months, which is I was taking care of my daughters as, you know, she was going through her journey and like, then you're just not working. So if they think really highly of you or not, like you'll never fulfill that, which gives you the approval in the first place. So stop chasing it. And that's an interesting by-product that I would have never guessed from a cancer battle.
Richard Cunningham Man, I feel that deeply. So talk about the business. You've got the 49 logo on, 49 Financial, 2012 start date right, you've got this epic naming story of Ecclesiastes 49, but give kind of the audience a little bit of a lay of the land of what you guys are doing. You're in the human services business, financial advising, and it's an incredibly well-respected shop here in town, so we'd love to hear some of the backstory.
Travis Penfield Yeah, well, I mean, what are we trying to do in an industry? We say that we're trying to become the Mayo Clinic of Finance. And we haven't gotten to publish that yet, because turns out Mayo Clinic won't let us. Shocker of the year, everybody. So if you know anyone there, if you just introduced me, would love to have that. So that's more of an informal listeners out there. It was informal. This is our informal mission statement. And I so admire what they did. You think about it, like they more or less came together and said. What if we were to accomplish and tackle the most complex issues in health? And they just started years ago and just said, how do we keep bringing better and better experts? And how do continue to have a training hospital to have more and more doctors that learn under those experts? So I've just always loved the model, have some personal experience with it, and it's wonderful. And so, if I think about what we're trying to do, I'll put it in a simple three things. So I think our industry, um is still stuck right average age is upper 50s and almost all of them white and so quite quite literally like this industry is Old white dudes behind mahogany dust still i'm in the industry for 12 or 13 years still the same dudes They just lost hair like it's unbelievable like we can't get women We can't give minority we can we can do these things and it's just kind of makes me mad Especially having three daughters. I'm like this ain't right like I gotta try to do something about this But I think the problem also is like The industry is so old that everyone is scared to death in the halls of our industry of technology. They're all, oh my gosh, they're gonna take my job, they're going to this, they are AI, and they're also scared. I'm like, you can't be scared of that stuff. Like you have to create an organization that can adapt to it. And so what we're trying to do is three things that we believe over the next decade or two is going to keep the human side of financial services, right, the human of advice giving alive and well. The first is we want to handle more complex issues. And so we started as just advisors that were just giving advice. And now we've moved into estate planning, high-end charitable giving, doing all the trust and wills, doing their entire family office. Why? Because when you're doing all of that, you can handle a lot of complexity. The second is more services. I think that Amazon has taught us all as a consumer that I love the fact that I can click a button. I don't go to Target. I don' go to H-E-B. I don't go to any of these places because I can just get it all from Amazon. And so the idea is. If you can create an organization where when someone says I'm a client, they can get it all done for them, right? It's like, my home and auto insurance, like when was the last time you met someone that knew what their home and an auto insurance meant? For real, like what does this umbrella mean? What do you give me a free umbrella? No one knows, right. And so the idea is simple. It's, like, how do you get as many, we call it like the hub and spoke model. How do you do as many spokes and you be at the hub of that to where a client says like, how do I just work with them and they do everything? And then the third one, right? If more complexity, right, more services, that third one is more community. And I think what we're seeing is post-COVID, our industry has turned very Zoom friendly. That's great, right. The problem with that is what we've seen from clients is they're not getting that feeling of community anymore. They're not get that feeling of like, I like to do a review on my situation because I can't wait to hear how that person is doing, right, and how this team is doing. And so I think that if we can accomplish those three, You know, we may just get Mayo Clinic to sign off and say that we're the Mayo Clinic of Finance.
Justin Forman So when you say community, big word in the church, right? Yeah, no doubt. Like, says everything means something. Something, thank you. Okay, so when you talk about community and that, is it community more of like, hey, with your team, or is it with each other? Great question.
Travis Penfield So Clesiasi is four nine turns out that's what the name comes from right two are better than one you get a better return For your labor woe to the person that falls that doesn't have anyone to pick them up And then a cord of three strands is not easily broken So it's kind of like I've thought about renaming it to 411 financial business doesn't sauce clean You know, I mean for nine through and I like that people still think I'm a football player for San Francisco, but But like, you know, it's interesting because As we think about this idea I think that people struggle with this idea of a team that can help you internally, but then also because they're so happy together, invite you into almost a familial type experience. And so I think in 410, where it talks about that woe to the person that falls, like clients, and I think the thing that's out there for them is many people can do a plan to plan for your goals, right? And like, I hope people can, I think JetGBT can do that, Like, don't tell my advisors, but. Um, you know, it's not bad, you know, but what's different, man, when someone passes away, when someone loses a job, when the business doesn't sell for what they thought, um, when, when when someone has a parent pass away and the estate plan wasn't what they thought or whatever it is, right? Like when people feel like they have fallen, I think that's what I mean by community. We're the hand to pick them up. And I think an internal and external, and I think a lot of that's just because you've heard my story like I was the big old ego, you know, like, I can do all things through Christ, you strengthen me, emphasis on the eye. You know, it's like, it was just not as a kid and you know whatever, but I don't know man, like we are going to fall, whether it's a financial plan, whether it is in life, and can you have a community that's like that's when we jump in. Like almost the type of love we wanna exude is one that says, I expect you to fall and that's not the time that I say. Something's wrong with you, or like our relationship's off. It's like, knew it was coming, this is when I come in even more deeply and more intentionally.
Justin Forman I think there's such a gap of like, again, in the defensive industry, like protectionist mindset, you're missing the opportunity to really switch the value proposition of like really what you guys are about is trust. You're selling trust. You're a selling trust, you're a guide. Like the days of technology being able to give us data and plans are here. Like just accept that. Now the question is how do you coach and guide people into that right position? I think what there's that scarcity mindset that keeps us into the old way, but like the new way. I mean, candidly, yeah, it's messy, life's messy. But it's the thing that fills our heart. Like if you'd say like, and as an advisor, like, hey, you don't have to be the Excel master and this, that, and whatever, and performers and spreadsheets, but you can really be about helping people. I think in some ways, like that's the same thing, whether you look at the church and pastors, they didn't wanna run bank statements for a church. They didn't want to run this and that and HR policies. They want to be about teaching God's word and helping people, And how we put technology into its right place and to recognize how it frees us up for relationship. We're missing it and we just, yeah, I don't have a landing point as other than we're missing the value trade that's I think a trade up than a really a trade to hold on in the past. Totally agree.
Richard Cunningham So you've got to talk about the business a little bit in terms of number of advisors, the number of families you guys are privileged to serve, and this unique model that you have that you want a young team as you're kind of raising up the next generation of advisors. I know you've gotten some wise old sages on the team as well, but you've purposely built out a youthful model that 49 can be something that lasts beyond. And also there's just this transition you're talking about of advisors are aging out just kind of systemically as an industry. Yeah. And also talk about the... Longing for next-generation clients who are the inheritors of wealth or stepping into wealth themselves who want that values alignment when they sit down across the Table from someone who's providing that trust and that river guide type experience
Travis Penfield Well, brother, let's start with like, I get asked it all the time, because our industry is all but given up on the 22 year old. I mean, it's just not happening anymore. And people are always like, why are you doing it? And why are trying to do it at scale? Is that not the hardest thing in the world? Because you're having to teach them how to like, answer an email without an emoji, you know, let alone financial services. And I'm like, no, you're right, right? It's true. Like we got-
Richard Cunningham Big emoji.
Travis Penfield Well, there you go.
Justin Forman And i think we do some training and i'm not going my space in the game is complex because uh... Goodwood
Travis Penfield But yeah, so like, I think for me, like, my heart and why 49, as long as I'm around, is gonna be for the young person is, you know, we, if you think about us human beings in America, like if you're blessed to go to college, you've been living your life in approximately four year segments, right? You do like your first four or five years and you're just like a little baby. And then you got your elementary school, then you've got your middle school, then you get your high school, then you go to your college. We've been trained in these almost four-year segments of, hey, four years, and then you get to here, and you win, and you get to advance next level. It's almost like a Super Mario game. You know, it's crazy.
Travis Penfield And then all of a sudden at 22, I felt this. I get out of school and now all of the sudden, I'm working at this big consulting firm, really successful. And I won't use any names whatsoever, but I'm now in this like identity crisis. Cause I'm like, what's the next four year thing? Like at 26, do you win a prize? Cause like my parents said that I'm great, even if I lose, right? I'm a millennial. For us it's the first born. Yeah. And so What was so interesting, so I'm on this flight and we're going to Amsterdam for this client. And we're in line and true story. One of these higher up people, he says, hey Travis, I see that ring on your finger. And he points down at it and he says could you take that off for me? He goes, where we're going and like, what we're gonna be doing, I think that'll be uncomfortable. And when we got there, I learned and your mind can go where it needs to go of things that were happening. And then I got like ostracized, I got, like, what are you doing? You gotta, you know, client's always right. Like, why are you not partaking in some of this stuff? And I was like, man, if I didn't have my faith, if I had to have this awesome bride of mine, I'd have done all that stuff. And then, I've just been another person on the path. And I started to think about that as I came home on that long flight back. Man, I wonder how many people at my age right now are gonna say yes to that. And that's one of the first steps for the rest of their life to two or three divorces, kids they don't see because they claim to work and that's why they don' see them, like all these things that I was hearing. And so when it was time to like start something, I think my heart was around this idea of, could we be the place that, I don't know if they're gonna make it at 49 or not. I mean, our average retention in the industry is 9%. Odds are good, they won't. And while we're four or five times that, that still means, right? Like half of them won't, so my aim to the company is, if we're really looking at it from the ministry perspective, like if a lot of them aren't gonna make it, did we set them on solid ground to launch them into the next 40 years because it's not a four-year play? Yeah. And I think that that's, man, that's what inspires me. That's what I love. Uh, if you come in the halls of 49, you're probably going to get a training about, um, how, how do you, uh, you know, make your own personal values versus financial planning at times. And, and it's because like, these are the things that they need. Um, so I can, I can go into more, but I think that's the passion of it.
Richard Cunningham Yeah, well quickly because I just the the scale you've achieved is so amazing. How many people are on the team?
Travis Penfield Yes, we've got 200 advisors and then it takes about 50 or 60 staff operations to run the business. And then, yeah, I mean, our big goal, we're just launching Minnesota this year, so we'll be in 10 cities around the country, Los Angeles to Atlanta, all these places. And the biggest thing that changed for me is, pre us going independent in 2019, we were working on the umbrella of this large insurance company. And, you know, we had gotten that group up to 350 people. And so much better than even what we are today. And you may ask him like, why don't you just go do that again? Well, there's two things that the first was effectively like we could hire people there, give them a shot. And there was not a lot of expenses to that because we're a part of a master organization, right? So there's a financial component we've had to really like dial in because there's lot of costs to bring on a young person that doesn't produce revenue for some time, right. That's just business 101. But I think that the second thing that we're seeing is When these people then do come on and they do want to be served and they want to work for us, I think one of my mistakes, I don't want to go over Greg because I think the Lord kind of used it, but during the first seven years of building this thing, my favorite question for someone to ask me was what you just asked. It was my identity. Try to say how big is 49? And I was like, oh, I'm getting affirmed today. And I'd always answer it and they're like, oh my gosh, how do you do that? You're just this young kid and all these things. And I was always like, I have self-worth, you know? And I wasn't mature, man. I had faith, but young faith. And I think this version, what we're trying to do is say, can I answer that question and still say, I do think we're on this race to a thousand, race to 10,000, all these thing? Yes, I believe we're that path. But do I value that quantity as first place or do I evaluate quality? And I think for seven years, we value quantity over quality, if I'm honest with you. I think that we were, and in my own kind of immaturity, maybe more obsessed with the number, the development. And now we flipped it to say, no, no no no. We're gonna track the retention. We're going to track what is each advisor doing in success, and that's what we're gonna look at. And then if we can build the models and still keep the quality to get the quantity, great. And there was this wonderful mentor. And what she said to me is she had worked at Netflix and she said that something that they figured out when they were scaling and growing was this idea of a path versus a race. And she said, you keep saying like, here's the path to a thousand or path to 10,000. You have these years that you baked them out. She said, make it a race, you know if it's gonna be in three years, could happen in 10 years, 20 years, but the race is on, but you have told your firm, you do not care if it takes you many more years if it stays high quality. And I think that if I look first seven years, kind of last six years of the business, I'm just so much more proud of the businesses. You know, but I don't get to answer that question with as much like, it's not as cool. Yeah, it is not as as cool as it used to be. Kind of stinks, you know, I'm like, I want to say a thousand, but I think it's ready for that. I don' think we could develop them properly and get to a thousand.
Justin Forman Any time soon. So I want to jump in, it was something that we were talking about earlier is like this idea of, and you're hitting on it in a business sense, and obviously God's taking you guys through a lot as a family in a personal sense. Sometimes we think that the life gets easier, the sky gets clearer, it's easier for us to integrate our faith in our work. Has that been the case for you or do you find yourself like kind of more in like the using your Mario Brothers kind of analogy like leveling up? Kind of is that.
Travis Penfield Brother, I think I'm the exact opposite. I think that when I was younger and more naive in all these things, I think there was actually a little bit of a beauty in that because I did have that childlike faith in a sense in business. And this is something I don't think people talk about, but like the young entrepreneur that's a believer, I think they're such thing as childlike CEO faith. Yeah. Because you just like get and you're like, you know what everybody, let's stop the meeting. I'm gonna pray for this person. And you just do it. Like you've never heard of like this HR person coming in your ear and like, you know, that you could get sued for that one. And you're like, Oh, I didn't have a clue, right? Naivety. Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. And it is childlike. And I think there's a beauty of that. And so, you I think that for me, I have found myself especially over the last couple of years, now that I've been quote unquote, well educated in business and HR and all these things. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying I'm scared, although you can call me out on that if you think that that's true, there's something in me right now that doesn't do it with the same level of. Kind of almost like flippant, boldness, because I'm just like, well, yeah, I want to talk about it. That's important to me. And so I don't know that I have an answer, but I do think that it's something that, you know, I'm 36 years old, just turned it, you know a week ago, like the 30 something year old, like we need, we need maybe it's in your podcast, like some folks here, but like, we need older and wiser people to tell us like, so how do you do it when it starts to get successful, when it start to get more corporate? Because startup, I think it's really easy to do. He's gonna speak from your heart but uh... I would say i'm struggling
Justin Forman to find that balance today.
Speaker 6 Yeah, interesting.
Justin Forman We're definitely in that how moment. And we've talked about this a little bit before on the podcast is like the last 20 years, we've just seen an incredible thing that we can look back and say, God has been at work. Yeah. He's affirmed people understand that their faith and their work matters. Their venture is not theirs. It's to be used for something bigger than themselves. But we're stuck at the how. We're stuck in the how of like, what does this look like? Whether you're winning or you're losing, whether you're going up or going down or going through that season. But we are in that, how moment where we're getting really nitty gritty and we're being practical. And I think it's an encouragement and a challenge for the movement is please make sure you share your struggles. Don't just share your wins. Because like, yeah, great. That's nice and up and to the right and you got a bow on it. But like, tell me the struggles because that's where the real innovation for the next breakthrough happens.
Travis Penfield Yeah, it's funny you say that. In our journey, obviously, folks that have cancer or anyone that's got some brain issues or any of these types of things, we're kind of a place that they come to talk about. But I do think there's still a lot of things in business specifically that, to your point, it almost doesn't feel safe to do that, right? Because there is, I still think this like, and this would be kind of like my shout out to all the successful older entrepreneurs that are looking at young dudes like me to mentor. We still really want to like make you proud. Like we still want to put up the results. We still want do these things. And so it's difficult at times to tell them that. And so I think that, I love your podcast. I love what you guys are in here, because I feel the space is free for that in this moment. And I just don't know that we talk enough about like, as the younger person usually in the room, I'm kind of reading the room to say, is it safe to do this? You know, and is it okay for me to just tell you all that You still want to mentor me. You know, I don't know, I don' think that always happens.
Richard Cunningham One of the things I want to commend about you is, I mean, we were hanging out pre-podcast just talking the number of times you said the word mentor. You referenced the people in your C12 group, which by the way, you are in the most stacked C12. Dude, shout out Mike Sharrow. It is unfair. It's the all NBA team of all time.
Travis Penfield And then you got me little bugs bunny. Just trying to try to make the squad everybody
Richard Cunningham We need you to go just invite all of them onto the Faith Driven pod for us, so everyone can hear these stories. We got a couple of them. I haven't even been here this much yesterday. Yeah, that's true. They're legends. We've bothered them all. But that's just one area I want to commend you, just how much you've talked about the wisdom that's gone before you. Hey, being the Faith-Driven Investor side of this podcast, as we get to do releases as FDE and FDI, selfishly I have to take us in this direction. I mean, 49 helps families shepherd a ton of capital. Yeah. And on that faith-driven investing front, where are you seeing the space kind of going? What are you encouraged by on this kind of values-driven front? How you all are approaching that conversation with families? Is it coming inbound to you all a lot of people saying, hey, I want a better line faith and investments? What is 49 kind of doing on that front?
Travis Penfield You know, what's interesting is, and I'll give God the glory on this one, it was probably four years ago that I told you about like the big three, like I wanna do more complex things with the business, more services, right, more community. And one of the first things when we said like, what's another service we could offer the client, you know, NCF, National Christian Foundation, friends of ours, right? I started having a lot of discussions with them about like, so what do y'all do? And we get, you know we get deep into charitable trust and dafts and foundations, all these wonderful things. And I'm like I'm gonna go do a bunch of trainings for our advisors and let's see what happens. Like, let's if we can be the place that people know when they come to that you're gonna hear just as much giving advice as you are about suiting your money and making it grow a certain rate of return for your retirement or whatever. And so we launched it and man, it is, I will tell you, I think that there is a hunger out there for, if you're a financial advisor, listening to this, like, really, it really would press you into So, make that a part of what you talk about. Because the amount of times that people will, you know, you're like, so can I just ask you, like, what do you give in a year? It's like one of two places, right? It's either like, well, I'm making all this money and, you know I'm doing this much and they have this shame, right. Or it's like, man, I've given everything, like it's amazing. And you know we have this opportunity in our industry, right, as like pretty much guiding investors, right, to have one of the more intimate dialogs, you know that almost any profession will have. I have somebody. And I cannot tell you how many times we've been able to help them understand giving, help them understand like, how could they actually make it work in their plan? And I think one of the other things that most people probably know is like, yeah, you get a deduction, but if done right, you get to save the capital gains tax. And so one of things that like is a coin that we have and I know National Christian Foundation, I think coined it themselves first, but it's this idea of can we turn tax dollars into giving dollars? And I'd have to get you the exact stat, but I know it was over nine figures last year that would literally have gone to the federal government, which, you know, pay Caesar what Caesar's, I'm not saying that like we shouldn't pay our taxes, but like to do a plan that without us existing, would have just gone to government and next time you go down a road and there's a pothole, you're like, dang it, I paid for that to be fixed. Versus, you now, all of that money, then us saying, hey, this is new dollars. What do you care about?
Richard Cunningham Yeah, it's so cool.
Travis Penfield That's what I think is getting to be way more passionate, I think, for us than even just the financial plan in some ways, because it sure fires them up.
Justin Forman Yeah, and again, it goes back to the early side of like, if technology can take care of some piece of the puzzle and it frees you up to be more intentional in that, I mean, what's the thought of just, what is the role of that advisor? When we think about who are the pastors of the marketplace, I think it's the entrepreneurs. As much as the pastors are the conveners of the pastors in the marketplace and they equip and they affirm and they send out, but there's an incredible emphasis there. When you talk about advisors, I mean, yeah, you're gonna hear a sermon on a Sunday morning talking about giving and generosity and importance. But imagine if you can come to the plate and somebody knows the theological perspective and the practical side of things. Pastors of the marketplace and the role that advisors play is just tremendous. Not just today, but when we think about the optimism in the next decade or two, this is where that battle lines are. This is like having that conversation and saying, okay, I'm used to hearing one or two buckets, but how do I do this in a God-honoring, faithful way? To plant the seeds but or to bring the seeds of a conversation to bear. Yeah. I think it's just it's a reimagining of that and it's a beautiful thing that I think is on the verge of happening.
Travis Penfield I mean, I think I cannot agree more. And I will say like this next generation, because we hire a lot of young people, I think that as you talk about the next 10 years or 20 years, I will whatever you wanna say about the generation, good or bad, like they're hungry to learn. Like there is more desire than, you know, my millennial group, right? And so I do think that there is a readiness. And then on the flip side, the bulk of our clients are over 50 years old. You know, I mean, most of them are 55, 60, you know, of course, that's kind of the business run. I cannot tell you how many of them need to be told. You spent 30 or 40 years learning your craft, learning wisdom, learning all these things. Yes, I've said mentorship, because I still think that's it. Like if every single person, like said, I'm gonna mentor three young people this year and that was their goal, we may change the doggone world, right? But it's just not happening. And sometimes like you gotta ask the young kid, they don't even know what a mentor is. Like I did a training one time at Forty and I said, Everyone, define for me a mentor. You sure heard their responses, right? But we don't know what we're doing. Like it's all just learning from those that went before us, but I don't that that's happening as much, but I can feel it rising.
Richard Cunningham Travis has been awesome. Loving this. Maybe to close, kind of bigger question type, if you will, but just, you know, what are you most passionate, fired up about, thinking about the most right now as you're building in Scalent 49, caring for a family? I mean, what's just top of mind for you right now is build this business.
Travis Penfield Yeah, I think there's a personal and there's professional answer to that. So if I think about what I wanna be involved in over the next 10, 20, 30 years in the industry, I want to be the team that bridges the gap of the trillions of dollars that are being managed right now by the older advisor, right? That's sitting out there and 40 years, they've been loving these people, it's amazing. But their only offer right now is to either sell it for a bunch of money and then not talk to the very people they want it to. Or stay on and keep hearing from the client, like, what's your succession plan? Like, I'm getting nervous. And we have all these amazing advisors out there that they don't know where to go because the options are not right. And they sure don't like, is there people that agree with my values that will like hold tightly to these clients and love on them and steward them because I'm not gonna be here. And I really hurt for those people and I've met so many of them now. And then the young person, we need to do something in this industry to keep them coming in, develop, train. I get it's the hardest work. I get it's the work that no one really wants to do anymore. I get all the things and someone has to do it. And so I think as I think about in maybe a paragraph, like what do I hope happens over the next 10, 20 years, I think it's this combination of, can we unite all of the older generation and younger generation to work together, but do it where we take this Amazon approach, this Meo-Khun-Kun finance where we say, we're gonna bring a version of a family office to the massive fluid. Which is an offering that's never been out there, right? I mean, family offices existed for the hundreds of millionaires, billionaires forever, but we are in the works of getting that to the mass affluent. And if you get all the old, all the young, and you have that offering, I think that we could shake up the whole industry. And to y'all's point, use tech as a best friend. Absolutely, right. And so I think it's everything I get excited by and I can go through all the different things. I think we're up to like nine different companies we haven't talked about that isn't just 49 trying to combine them all to do it. It's gonna be super exciting. But on the personal side, you know, the prayer is we got three years left for Jacqueline's five-year journey, you now, post-cancer. And it is just every day, it's how do we get to that? And I don't have it right, but I'd say our prayer nightly together is, like, Lord, how do look forward to that day where we can celebrate that it has been five years and this monkey's off our back, but then enjoy the moment? And that's, I think, very difficult for us. And so if you like. What am I getting fired up by? The simple truth of like a six, five and a three year old daughter is looking at their dad to lead right now and a wife that's two years removed from cancer. It's got another three years for this recurrence. How do I lead in that moment us to have an unbelievably fulfilled, beautiful life serving the Lord, not in fear, but in a place of like Lord of Cheers anyways, like anything can happen. We're all one phone call away from our life completely changing. And I think that I want to live in that. Not in fear, but in a, let's just enjoy the moment. Let's enjoy the days we get and hopefully lead them in the way that the Lord's called me to.
Justin Forman What a gift. Grateful for the way that you open your story and allow us to kind of journey with you and just the joy, the sorrow, the pain, the beauty, the brokenness as you were describing earlier, just what you guys have gone through. But sharing that and allowing people to see that shadow of a leader and just to being able to say, okay, what does it look like to follow in that is really beautiful. So guys, it's always good to be with you. If you're hearing this and you are feeling like you're alone on this journey, let today be the end of that. Take a step. We've talked about faith-driven entrepreneur, faith- driven investor groups. This is a chance just to be known, to begin that journey. It's a place where online or in person, you can begin that conversation. We know that it never ends. There's many seasons, many chapters to it, but we would encourage you to check those things out. Take advantage of that opportunity to begin that conversation with friends who can understand you and what God's doing in your life. Always great to be with you. We look forward to seeing you next episode.
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