Episode 26 - Preparing the Next Generation of Faith Driven Investors with Dick Blanc and Steven Diedrich
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Today, we’re talking about the future with two people who work with colleges to prepare the next generation of Faith Driven Investors. They’re both applying hands-on practice to their business school students in ways that uniquely prepare them for the world of finance and investing.
Dick Blanc is the Executive Director of Beyond: The Startup Accelerator at Cedarville University. He works alongside founders in the Accelerator by providing guidance and inspiration sourced from years of experience.
Steven Diedrich is the Executive Director of the Baylor Angel Network at Baylor University where they are helping engaged students receive a real-life education concerning the inner workings of angel investing.
If you’d like to reach out to Steven or Dick about getting involved with either of their programs, you an contact them via email:
Steven_Diedrich@baylor.edu
dblanc@cedarville.edu
Episode Transcript
Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.
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Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to The Faith Driven Investor podcast. We've got a really special edition today. We talk a lot about how to get investors focused on how to honor God in the marketplace and be a part of his kingdom coming on earth as it is in heaven. And if I'm truthful, much of our focus has been on people who are already investors, who've been out there for a while and thinking about a new way to invest and maybe to reconfigure the way they think about their assets. Maybe they've been investing in fidelity for 20 years or some of the more traditional asset vehicles. But what's a great way to think about getting investors to think about faith driven investing from the outset? The beginning of their career, their beginning of their investment life. Well, the two folks that are with us today have been thoughtful about that.
And we've got Stephen Diedrich from the Baylor Angel Network and then also Dick Blanc from Cedarville to talk to us about how they're working with young entrepreneurs, young investors, how to help them to understand from an early day about how they can participate in faith driven investing. So Baylor Angel Network has been going on for a while. The idea of investing and putting money to work and training up student investors with real dollars is pretty unique. You guys have been doing it for 13 years and I want to camp out on that a little bit. Just tell us more about how you do what you do. What are the deals you see? How did the students get involved? How do you structure deals and maybe tell us even some success stories that have come out of your time in investing?
Steven Diedrich: Yeah, I'm happy to. So, you know, the basic way we operate is, as you know, I'd say almost any other angel network. We've got a pool of members that come in and we invest in promising companies. And although we're university affiliated, we don't have any hard restrictions on you'd have to be a Baylor grad to join. Right. Or you don't have to give to the university to join. And the same with the companies. You know, we look at all sorts of companies, even if they're founded by non Baylor alumni, the tie into the university is really through the student educational program. And it's really flavored with even the way we got started. You know, the perspective has always been one of service and giving back. And one way I've heard it put it is, listen, I joined the Baylor Angel Network so I can invest. Right. And make some money in my investments as a steward of my you know, what I have. But then I can turn and give to the University of the profits, give up my time and mentoring these students and pouring it into that interaction is it's really neat relationship where we've got students that are learning about investing and analyzing these opportunities. And we're connecting them not only with investors who do it, but we're having them do the work where they actually lead our screening, cycling and all the diligence materials that we hand to our investors when a company comes in to pitch was put together by these student analysts who'd been mentored and guided both by our faculty and by our members. And, you know, if we look at some success stories, we had an exit in January that I think is a great one to look at because it touches on all these points of why Baylor supports this. Right. Why do you support a bunch of investors, right. Who invest in these start companies? Well, we had members of the Baylor Angel Network who invested in and oftentimes they'll take advisory seats, too. But they invested in this company that was actually started by a Baylor grad with this one, you know, in five or six years later, had thirty five times their money returned to them. So hugely profitable investment. That's kind of what we're going for in the angel world anyway, right? It's not the most frequent outcome, but it is a great one. And out of that. Right. The members actually approached Baylor said, by the way, we know this was a great investment for us. We have clearly profited in our investments. We want to give to the university. And so out of that the university received, I think about 10 percent of profits were just given charitably from these members. And so you have this deal in particular touching a Baylor entrepreneur screened by Baylor students, invested in by Baylor alumni who've now turned around given money so Baylor can continue to do this program in training up and guiding these students.
Henry Kaestner: So tell us about the other part of that, which is the company that you invested in and are there different types of companies that you look at in terms of stage or industry or geography or whether the leaders are driven by their faith?
Steven Diedrich: Yeah, so our perspective is we want to be good stewards of our investors finances and we look at all sorts of opportunities. It almost has guided more by our investors perspectives on what they want to invest in. And that's kind of what guides what we look at generally where early stage series. So after first revenue, but not too late. Across all industries. And so, you know, there's a lot of diversity there. We don't have any formal requirements that, you know, it be founded by a Christian. We don't have any formal requirements on a mission there. But our perspective is we want to invest in companies that contribute to kind of the flourishing of mankind. Right. Things that are beneficial to society now. We can also paint a negative light. This is hey, there are things we just we don't want our money in. But we don't take a hard perspective on investing in Christians, because I think a lot of our members, they look at this and say, listen, I'm a Christian, you know, and not all of them are. But, you know, oftentimes our members have these projects that you know, I'm a Christian. I want to put my money to work in companies that are doing good. And then I can have an influence. It builds my relationship with this company, with guiding them, with their consumers and as well as with the students. And so I'd say more of our perspective is leaning on, you know, if you are a faith driven investor and you join the Baylor Angel Network, live that out. Right. You may be investing in an entrepreneur that is not a Christian, but what a great opportunity that is for Christians to be living and engaged in with people who don't know the Lord Christ because it gives opportunity to point to him, to his glory. And why are we doing this? Why is the Baylor Angel Network different in our giving some of our profits in our pouring into students? And so it tends to more flavor who we are in leaning out rather than being a filter that we apply.
Henry Kaestner: Yeah, I think you bring up a super good point there and that it's not just how unique Baylor Angel Network is, but I think that a lot of the folks that are listening to this podcast are angel investors and help manage a fund that invest in Faith driven entrepreneurs in Southeast Asia, United States. And somebody might infer from that that I think that really true faith driven investing is only investing in Christ followers. And yet you mentioned something dynamic that's incredibly important. As an entrepreneur is out there regardless of their faith background or their faith intentionality. And they are living it up. They're feeling the stress. They are going through the crucible, if you will, an angel that's really involved in an entrepreneur's life has this incredible opportunity to witness and be with them and be friends with them, whereas share the reason for the hope we have with gentleness and respect. And that comes through a relationship. And an angel has this great opportunity to be in relationship with the founder and then with time and through love, being able to share the reason for the hope they have. And I think that that's such a key part, lest we otherwise be constrained with faith driven investing only into a holy huddle. Now, to be clear, I'm a member of that, and I think that investing in Faith driven entrepreneurs is a beautiful way to advance God's kingdom. And yet that's not the only way. And so you're speaking to that. Can you maybe even give us an example or have you seen that happen where somebody from the Baylor world has gotten involved in a company and the discipleship or the faith foundation of the founder, the entrepreneur has been influenced in a way that's been full of life for the founder?
Steven Diedrich: Yeah, no. And without getting too much into into maybe specific scenarios there. I mean, we we see a number of times where a BAN member will get involved as an advisor and help provide some coaching or help your entrepeneur. And, you know, I think one area, maybe one example that specifically shows how being a Christian in this can be a huge benefit is, you know, not all these investments go well and return 35x, like I mentioned earlier. And we have one that there was infighting, a shareholder and not a new thing, not a unique thing. But there was actually one of the BAN members who, you know, is investor in this company. And, you know, I look at and say, you know, because Christians were called to live in a way. Right. That puts us above reproach. I mean, that's the calling of the Christian. One of our BAN members was asked to come and join into a special committee that was trying to help bring the peace. Right. And you think about what a Christian is called to do. And be peaceful. Right. Be a peacekeeper. And in these relationships. And so that BAN member was able to step into this role, help broker these tense relationships. And, you know, I can only imagine you look at this one on ones and say, what's your thought on this member here? It's like, well, you know, what a great option they were to step into a tough situation and show the patience, show the love, show the kind of uprightness of Christ in those relationships, even when things get bad.
Henry Kaestner: Thank you very much for that. I want to switch over to you, Dick. You've got a new program that's starting at Cedarville under your leadership, has been launching a platform and a program for a little bit more than a year. Talk to us about how you are forming your curriculum and your investment strategy, how you're looking at deals, maybe some of the same type of questions that I just asked Stephen.
Dick Blanc: Happy to. Well, we first looked at launching this program. We got 25 business leaders. Most of them alums from the university together. And we were focused on picking one thing where we could put our expertize and capital behind to advance the cause of Christ aligned with the university's mission. And in doing that, they ultimately decided that the best and most equitable way and focus. Our collective marketplace energies, our capital, our expertize, our relationship base, our opportunity to mentor students and alumni and others close to both an accelerator on campus, we call the whole program Beyond, the Accelerator and also an angel network, not unlike what Stephen just described at Baylor. Then we also, of course, have an entrepreneurship academic track that cuts across all 16 of the schools at the university. But, you know, one of the things that really informed how we structured this and why we did it and why top down board of trustees, president, cabinet, across the university, everybody is very aligned with the strategic importance of the program. Our belief is that I know everybody on the call here the same belief that under God, the marketplace has tremendous influence on our culture. If there's any doubt about that, you can see what happened when we shut it down for 20 days. These recent events that still continues has huge impact. The market points to us. It has gone on a culture. We also do it. The great advances for the cause of Christ seem to always begin with an athlete or a leader both Biblicallyin contemporary history. And if you look at how the marketplace looks like, particularly in the US, there's like a continuous transformation or renewal of the marketplace that goes on every 20, 25 years. There's cycles for the startup economy feom 20, 25 years ago also becomes a leaders of a marketplace of the future. Those leaders who were part of that whole venture economy 20, 25 years ago then become leaders in heavy influence in the marketplace. The worldview that those leaders ultimately have has enormous influence in the culture, communities, and the way we live. And so we're playing a long game with a certain Time over Target. I personally think that by launching hundreds of state driven companies with a biblical worldview, for profit model, you know, ultimately rising and scaling to have positions and platforms of influence in the marketplace. We feel that that is a great, positive way to allow our communities to flourish, to advance the cause of Christ. That's a biblical worldview, helped to shape the culture and really the ambitions and influence with those pillars and also those of us that helped shape and fund and coach and mentor and capitalize and to have that kind of impact. So we want to be a Midwest hub, in effect to what's going on with faith driven entrepreneurs and faith driven investors. We also want to be part of a global ecosystem where our impact and deal flow and our capital can be multiplied. And you guys have a great impact and making all that happen. And it's created just a phenomenal ecosystem for which we are now joining. And our angels, our alums and students going through the accelerator, the interactions we're having with other accelerators for deal flow, the sharing of deal flow across other angel networks around the country. They just have this multiplying impact for God that has really added more impact for the university for God's kingdom. So that's what excites us and why we're happy to have made this strategic move in the past year or so and it continues to scale.
Henry Kaestner: I want to talk to a little bit more about how each of you think about equipping the investors of the future with how they look at investment opportunity. But before I do that Dick, you have this entrepreneurial program that goes across all the different colleges that are part of your university. What are some common tenets what are some common principles that you want to impart on these young faith driven entrepreneurs, that are going to go out there and innovate and create a business?
Dick Blanc: Yeah. Great question. You know, we put some thought into that. Obviously, a biblical worldview is certainly a common principle. Everybody at Cedarville University, regardless of the school that their majors anchored in, whether it's business or engineering or science, cybersecurity. You're seeing all those degrees, everyone gets a Bible minor before graduation. So biblical principles are instilled throughout the curriculum in all of the practice areas of the 16 schools of the university. Interestingly, now the entrepreneurship program besides now the Bible minor is one other minor that's across all 16 in all schools. So I tell you what, we see our partnership in all the tenets of the grit and tenacity in going all in that we know an entrepreneur does to attack then uncaptured opportunity or a problem that God cares about in a for profit model. We want to encourage more of our students, more of our alums, and of course, many of our investors who have an affinity with the university to help scale the addressing and solving of problems. So we see entrepreneurship in principle as a great way to influence the world, but also to solve the unsolved problems that I talked about two minutes ago in isaiah 58.
Henry Kaestner: So riff on that a little bit more, because you've got an opportunity, of course, to teach great entrepreneurial curriculum, you can do lean startup, you can do traction a whole bunch of different things. You can do Yoaz. And then, of course, you've been well versed in how to train kids on the Bible. Are there aspects of being an entrepreneur that you think a Christ follower really needs to lean into? Or are there different things that you think of Christ following entreprenuer that wants to have a career in entrepreneurship needs to be aware of or wary of?
Dick Blanc: Yeah, yeah, good question. I mean, one of the things that probably would be unique, I think, to an entrepreneur who's a Christian, certainly one would be how they think about their role as a founder, as a CEO, as a leader of their enterprise. More from a stewardship standpoint than from an owner standpoint. That's really one key principle that certainly drives home pretty hard.
I think another key principle is just the whole idea of, certainly the companies need to be wildly successful economically, financially, to scale, to attract investors, to attract customers, to operate, just like some of the great companies that are out there today, the Chick-fil-a's the Home Depots and others. They need to be financially strong and sound at scale. Great profits, great revenue growth, but we also encourage our entrepreneurs to be principled in the impact that they make. So, you know, having more than one bottom line is something that we feel strongly about. And we see out there in the marketplace as something that's honoring God. We have just some great mentors are role models that are participating in our program who do that with their businesses. And boy, it really resonates when a student sees that type of principled mindset in the leaders of today as they see leaders of tomorrow.
One thing I'm encouraged about, about the students today and I know, Steven, I've talked about this a little bit as well at Baylor, is the things that took me a while. And I'm an alum of the University, but the things it took me a while to learn in the marketplace. It seems students already have learned just the things that are important. They're More principled. They're more focused on having a purpose. They've got a mission. And I don't know that when we were all grads was quite as prominent. You know, certainly we talked about it, but I see that passion that heart. Most of the students that I interact with have a strong heart for mission and purpose of God, but also a strong ambition to be excellent and successful in the marketplace. And they seem to have a great balance to that. And I hope that continues as they enter the marketplace.
Henry Kaestner: Steven, I want to switch back to your Baylor Angel Network. You've been thinking about investing for at least 13 years. And undoubtedly you've got a curriculum and a framework to teach investors, young investors about faith driven investments. What's that curriculum look like if you're going to encourage another university that wants to be serious about developing a curriculum on faith driven investing? What are those core pieces?
Steven Diedrich: So we kind of look at this from two perspectives. You know, first and foremost, as a university, you know, our focus is really making sure how are we doing a good job educating these students. And so not just training them. We're not a trade school. Right. We're not teaching them to just do this kind of classroom involved, but really encouraging the students to think through and be innovators and be leaders in this space and within the business. I think this is especially important then to take that extra step and put them and to get these hand experiences and let them lead right. With these companies, because with the CEOs engaging with the investors. And that's one thing that's kind of helped shape what our curriculum looks like. And the basic framework from the students perspective is, you know, they come in and they are not only being trained in, you know, understanding the basic tenets of how do you negotiate, how you evaluate an opportunity, what's important, what terms or get you how do you model some of these financials? You know, that's kind of the one part. Right. And that's building on the broader curriculum that Baylor has in both finance and entrepreneurship and in a number of other backgrounds that our students come from. But beyond that, what I'd say sets the Baylor Angel Network apart is, you know, we have just an awesome opportunity to take, you know, these top students in this area and connect them with alumni and connect them directly with these entrepreneurs. Not only can they do it, but then they can see, you know, what's a moderate who someone I can emulate. You know, one of the feedbacks we get at the end of the year, I often ask these students, like, what have you appreciated most about your time in the Baylor Angel Network? And I'll tell you all, it's good for these students. Like when you look at job placement, for example. Right. It's good that they know how to do some pretty heavy financial modeling. They they're creative in the way they think about opportunities and threats and. None of it mentioned just that piece, right? They don't say, hey, it set me up for a great job. Oftentimes the feedback we get is, man, the members, the mentors I have. Right. The way I can now look at a Christian businessmen. Right. And learn to emulate that. The way that they walk in humble service. Right. Honoring God and what they do and now being a model for my life as I'm leaving college. Because, you know, oftentimes these students that I've had them ask me this several times already, as they say, you know, I'm Christian and I'm a finance major or I'm an entrepreneurship or I'm an engineering major. Right. And I do that. And, you know, should I take this job in investment banking or should I go into ministry? And I feel like there's this kind of tension and just the opportunity, you know, beyond me. Right. But, you know, for each of our members. Right. To be able to give their input and really guide these students to understand that, you know, your faith. That should influence what you say. Yeah. You know, the answer is yes, Minister, through your life as an investment banker, minister through your life if you go into consulting or venture capital or, you know, a number of careers that our students go into. And so it's that extra little piece that I see us having the opportunity and a platform to deliver through the Baylor Angel Network that I say sets this apart from other opportunities where they're either just getting educated or just getting experience.
Henry Kaestner: So there's a lot of conversation happening right now about the fall. And by the fall, I'm not talking about what happened in the garden. I'm talking about the season. Autumn, there's uncertainty in what the fall schedule is going to look like for many schools. And as a result, I think that a lot of people are looking at the higher price tags of higher education. How important are programs like this, these real world experiences to the value of the college experience? And do you think that this crisis is going to slow, that our accelerate that, how are you processing all that?
Steven Diedrich: That's a great question. I've actually had the same conversation with some of our analysts. Right. They're looking at what if we go online in the fall? Should I take an internship, take a gap year gap semester? I mean, how does this impact just me personally? And, you know, one of the perspectives I have on this is higher education serves a great purpose. Right? A university model. It has a great purpose. And I maybe won't get into the price of that because I think that's a whole nother can of worms. But when you talk about the value that someone's putting into coming off to university, it's not just for the experience of being off at college or just for that diploma. Right. It's kind of a signaling tool to get a job. Right. You jump down that labor economics degree. But really, you know, what the university should be striving to do is encouraging these students. Right. To be thoughtful leaders. Right. It's contributing to that academic curiosity. And so a program like Ban, I think fits in perfectly and just enhances that experience because it's not just I go to a classroom and I'm learning and they're encouraging me to be creative and curious. But, you know, it kind of stops here. It's this kind of flavor that we call the BAN practicum. So as the students come in, there's the curriculum that they go through to. And in that it's not just a class like you would normally have where you show up, you do your readings, you have some assignments. So it's we're digging deep. Right. And we're encouraging the students to be curious and to ask questions. And then we've also got this awesome, you know, almost an internship through the Baylor Angel Network. And we hold these things side by side. And I can sit down and look at one of our analysts and say, you know, so tell me about this. You've got one company that you've been on a call with the CEO. You've talked about terms. Right. Why is it important? How are you applying what you're learning today and tomorrow? And just that interplay between, you know, really pouring into and building up these students from an academic side, from an experienced side, from connecting them with alumni and engaging them that way side. I think just creates a student who's so well equipped to not just go into the workforce, but to thrive and to succeed and be a leader in the workforce. And as we look at our years of graduates who've come through the Baylor Angel Network. As an analyst and looking at where they are now, it's amazing and it's humbling because they often leave with this perspective of how do I turn around and help the next person? How do I approach this with a humble stewardship? And that's just such a blessing to see the way that just a short time we have I mean, it's only 18 months of their college career, but through the Baylor Angel Network that we can help instill that and tie them in. And, you know, they can turn around and and help the class after them the next generation.
Henry Kaestner: Dick, want to throw in on that, too?
Dick Blanc: Yeah, yeah, happy too. You know, we had a record enrollment of 10 percent above the prior year in 2019, which was just phenomenal. And unheard of in the university settings. And even in the covid environment here our deposits are pretty well aligned with a similar performance. And so that's been great. We're going to open up on campus a couple weeks early. We want to send the students home for Thanksgiving break. And that'll be the end of the semester. That's how we're going to manage that. But it will be on campus instruction. Even before the crisis came along, there was already a strong trend towards students wanting meaningful and real experiences that were real world and immersive. And programs like what Stephen is describing a Baylor, what we're doing at Cedarville. Very much that way. They're very real-world, very immersive. The interaction with top business leaders, Angels, venture capital, private equity, strong operators, and strong entrepreneurs. The students are getting immersed experience, paid on campus internships in venture finance, fund management, entrepreneurship. And it's really created a draw for more of that kind of experience at the university. So we feel like programs like this could be a trend. So across Christian universities at least, that could make great impact, both outcomes as well as the on campus experience.
Henry Kaestner: I'll ask you guys one last question before our final question that we always ask each of our guests, and that is if I'm listening to this as an investor or as a established entrepreneur. Are there opportunities for me to get involved as an investor or as a volunteer in either of your organizations? And if so, how do I go about it?
Steven Diedrich: Absolutely. You know, I shoot me an email now. So, you know, we're always looking to bring in more members, more investors. And, you know, we always distill down to the four main reasons that people join the Baylor Angel Network. You know, one is to make investments or make profitable investments. The other is portion of the students piece, you know, kind of the service. And this comes in times in waves as members are able. But there's great opportunity to contribute not just to the students as a mentor, but even more informally or with some of the other acts of service that we have. The other reasons we look at are just the opportunity to network with other investors. Right. Who share these values or, you know, kind of the final one is to learn about investing in these entrepreneurial ventures. And that's the kind of the investing piece, right? Yeah. The deal flow that comes. You know one of the unique things as we talk about just the investing. I mean, these things get to be highly vetted by the time our members see them. You know, I will take 30 companies that apply in a cycle. Our analysts will do deep dives and 15 of them raise to get to the top four. And this is a five week process that results in, you know, 10 pages of research that our analysts do.
And so, I mean, there's a high vetting of the deal flow, too. And so, you know, I'd say if someone of to join we've got ways to engage. If you're close enough to drive into Waco, we've got ways to engage if you're not right. We have out of state members that join us virtually. And so much of you know, when we hit this covid crisis, it didn't really throw too big of a wrench in what we're doing because most of our members live, you know, hour and half to three hours away. You know, most are about that far. And so a lot of our cycle is virtual, is enabled by Zoom or conference calls in other things. And so, you know, the presentation meetings online, too. Not ideal, but easily doable. And so, you know, I think you've got my contact information and, you know, let's have a conversation.
Henry Kaestner: We'll put it up in the show notes. Dick, how about your?
Dick Blanc: I would say the same thing. You can put my contact in the show notes. You also have the cedarville.edu/beyon. And if you go to those landing pages, there's opportunities as entrepreneur in residence. There's opportunities as an angel member to participate and mentor the students, as well as to invest in a curated set of deal flow and our next virtual investor event where we're looking at deals is June 12th. So you can go to the Web site I just described and register. So that you can be a guest speaker, you can sponsor internships. So all that'll be really clear if you go to cedarville.edu/beyond I'd love to have more listening in here, participate in the growth and become angel members. That's the best way to plug in.
Henry Kaestner: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. With each of our properties Faith Driven Entrepreneur Faith Driven Investor and the new faith driven athlete, we ask our guests one final question. It's always the same. What are you hearing from God's word? Maybe this morning, maybe this week, maybe last week, that you really feel that he's speaking to you about. Steven, we'll start with you.
Steven Diedrich: That sounds great. So I've been reading through with my two boys first and second Samuel and we're into Kings now. And, you know, as we've been doing that kind of just Bible study with, you know, a four and a five year old, one of the things that I've been just really taken from and resting in is God's sovereignty. And I think even just in the face of COVID, that's something that I've been able to communicate to as the spirit's been teaching me. It's this reminder that our security is not in our health, or our security is not in our finances or in our, you know, the income we have. You know, that's not it. And so even if all that's taken away. Right, God is sovereign. And that's just an amazing thing to be able to read. Right. To talk to my little kids about. But also then to turn to our analysts and kind of point them to in this time of uncertainty. God is sovereign.
Henry Kaestner: Amen, Dick.
Dick Blanc: I'm thankful for Bobby Gruenewald, who I think you guys have interviewed on this podcast before, talking about the Bible app. And my discipline is to essentially go through that every year.
I love just how easy it is and the availability of it. And so I'm at this point in the year where I get to read about king after king in Israel in a quick summary of their life and their impact as leaders of God's people, the Israelites. The contrast is so stark when you go through and read each of those chapters. It just basically starts out. And so and so was either a good king following in the steps of David or was not.
So where God challenges me every year in that particular area is just who will I be as a leader and who will I mentor others to be as a leader? And what, if there was a chapter in God's word that summarized the impact of my life, what would it say? Would it say I was courageous and bold enough to address the things that God dislikes in the ways he wants? Would it say that I trusted him in his sovereignty and in his wisdom versus aligning and partnering with perhaps another acquaintance or company or partner who has some strength to help me in a difficult situation? Would I look to God and say God, like David, do I go to battle or do something else? And that certainly was a test for all the kings. Could it be said that in the scope of the things that I have the opportunity to lead and steward that I left him better than when I was given the role in terms of, you know, being aligned in God's mission, in the impact that God wants to make in the marketplace. And that's what resonates with me. And reminds me every day it wakes me up every day to think how we're making an impact today.
Henry Kaestner: I love the fact that you brought up Second Chronicles there. I think I'm on a different reading plan, doing it actually as a three year plan with a bunch of buddies going through a chapter a day and in this time going through the Bible. The thing that really impacted me was Second Chronicles and maybe because of where it follows, maybe because you just went through eight or nine chapters that just had genealogy after genealogy, which are kind of tough to get through. But then I listen, you run into the bad kings of Judah and the good kings of Judah. And the thing that left such a lasting impression was that the good kings were good thereafter to their father's heart. They're after David's heart. And yet every one of them made a critical mistake along the way and didn't seek God before making a major decision. And it didn't go well for him. For one, it was a trade deal. For one, it was going to battle. There six good kings, all six of them made a big mistake. And that's such an admonition for me. And really interesting to hear that they made an impact on you as well. We've come to the end of our time. I'm grateful for both of you. Super excited about the way that you've been thoughtful and having teenagers through early 20s, being very thoughtful by Faith Driven Entrepreneurship and Faith Driven investment. It makes me incredibly hopeful for the world. And thank you for the fact that there are things that both of you guys could have been doing. One of the things that we share in common is that we're both formed a little bit in St. Charles, Illinois, through our time with Arthur Andersen, Accenture Family Group but God has us each in different places. And you could have been in different places on Wall Street. And for you to be so serious about your faith and investing in this next generation, to have taken leadership in both these schools. It's a big deal, makes me hopeful. Thank you for your faithful obedience in that direction. Thank you for us listeners. And until next time, God bless you.