Episode 19 - Finding Opportunity and Revival Amidst the Coronavirus with James Cham
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We’re living in unprecedented times. Coronavirus continues to spread, and the fear and anxiety attached to it are moving even faster. It’s no secret the effects this pandemic is having on the economy and investing market. So, what do we do?
That’s the question we posed to James Cham, a venture capital investor with Bloomberg Beta. He provided a unique and positive spin on everything happening worldwide, and we’re excited to share his encouraging words amidst these challenging days.
If this episode encourages you, we hope you share it with others who may need an uplifting word. As always, thanks for listening!
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Episode Transcript
Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.
Henry Kaestner: [00:01:47] Welcome back to the Faith Driven Investor podcast. It's really good to be with you all. This is a special edition recording that we're doing with a good friend of all of ours. James Cham. It's infrequent that we have a guest on the program that Rusty knows well. William knows well, I know well. And so it's a great joy to have James Cham of Bloomberg beta with us on the Faith Driven Investor podcast during a crazy time and what's going on in finance and investing in the economy. James, thank you very much for making time to be with us this morning. [00:02:15][28.3]
James Cham: [00:02:15] Of course. Of course. I'm glad to be with you guys. I always look for excuses to hang out with all three of you. [00:02:20][5.0]
Henry Kaestner: [00:02:21] You know so many people that there's a good chance that every listener in his podcast knows you, but on the off chance that somebody doesn't tell us. Who are you? Where do you come from, what you do? [00:02:32][10.4]
James Cham: [00:02:33] Yeah, I'm a seed-stage investor with a v.c firm called Bloomberg Beta, where we invest in the future of work. [00:02:39][6.0]
[00:02:39] But more importantly, I'm a person who started as a software developer and then became a v.c a few years ago and struggled a lot about what that actually meant and why it might be important. And as a Christian, I think I've spent a bunch of time trying to figure out what is the actual role of an investor in God's kingdom. [00:03:00][21.2]
Henry Kaestner: [00:03:01] Mm hmm. So that notes to some extent, of course, that that faith is a part of your life. Have you always been a believer? [00:03:07][6.3]
James Cham: [00:03:09] You know, I grew up in a Chinese church in the San Gabriel Valley of California. [00:03:13][4.8]
[00:03:15] And it was a vital part of both how I thought about myself and how I thought about the world. And, you know, I was lucky enough to get involved with Intervarsity in college. And it's meant a lot to me. And so it's been a vital part of my life for a long time. [00:03:29][14.6]
Henry Kaestner: [00:03:30] As you were a software engineer and then now as an investor, how do you see this faith that you've had? There's been a big part of your life. How do you see that come to bear? Is it something that Sunday's you go to church and it's been a part of your intervarsity background and all that, and then Monday you're just kind of coming in and just bringing home the bacon? How have you seen faith work into your life vocationally? [00:03:50][20.2]
James Cham: [00:03:53] You know, it's interesting because when I got right out of college, I worked as a software developer. But more critically, I ended up living in a house with a bunch of other Christians, many of whom were involved in our local college fellowship. [00:04:06][13.3]
[00:04:07] And that meant for me the way that I thought about my work. [00:04:10][3.1]
[00:04:10] Getting my life wasn't quite as sort of clearly separated that those things all melded together. [00:04:16][5.6]
[00:04:17] And I think that's been quite helpful for me, even though I worked in sort of totally secular workplaces. That's meant that that's always been part of the discussion and part of the way that I thought about things. [00:04:27][10.4]
Rusty Rueff: [00:04:28] Hey, James, it's awesome to have you here. You know, we probably should mark this moment in time because our listeners of the Faith Driven Investor podcast could be listening to this years from now and not know why the audio quality is a little off and what's going on. Well, this is a moment. [00:04:44][15.6]
[00:04:44] It is March the twenty sixth of twenty twenty. And most of us on the line here are in shelter in place as we go through the COVID-19 pandemic. And you know, we wanted to have you on James, not only because of your background and what you do as an investor and a faith driven investor and how your faith informs that, but also to give your insight about what you see going on around us, particularly in the investing world. And like, how should an investor be thinking in this time both strategically and actually tactically, right. Because we're struggling a little bit here and we want to get your words of wisdom. [00:05:24][39.7]
James Cham: [00:05:25] Yeah. You know, sort of these are the times. So I'm glad I'm not a public market investor. Like I have no idea. [00:05:29][4.3]
[00:05:30] So they're how they should be thinking about the market or how they think about the world. But I think for an early stage investor and critically for early stage founders, this is such an important and unique moment. There are ways in which for many people they have felt like they've been made for moments like this. I think for normal people like me, you know, there were kind of freaking out and we're trying to figure out what to do day to day. But I think that there are sets of people right now for whom their entire life has been made for a moment like this, when the rules have been broken and thrown up and suddenly they get to try to create something different or redefine things. And I think there's an openness right now that's just going to be unique. And the people who are able to understand that and, you know, not to be too theological about it, but the people who've been created by God for this moment of whom. It's not everyone, but they're just a few. They will be able to do things they would have never been able to do before. It is now the time for like this 17 year old who's has no right to command the stage or the 60 year old who's been sort of thinking deeply for a long time. [00:06:39][69.0]
[00:06:39] It's like their chance now to really sort of take advantage of this moment. And I think it is so hard to sort of imagine that and think about it, but it's just right there. And I think that's really exciting, even amidst the terror and all the ways that this is going to be really bad and really hard to give us some more specifics on that. [00:06:58][18.7]
Henry Kaestner: [00:06:59] As you look at your portfolio as a private investor and you'd look at different sectors and you think about what the economy might look like and whether it'll be the same or different coming out of this, where are some of your observations? [00:07:10][11.6]
James Cham: [00:07:11] So I think that it is easy depending on how you feel to go swing wildly between "We're going to be in a sort of depression for 10 years or we're to have a time of unprecedented growth." [00:07:22][11.1]
[00:07:23] And I think it's just very hard to know. But what that really means is that the cone of possibility, you know, sort of the range of what's possible right now is so wide. And so that is both terrifying and exciting. And I think that that means that for the portfolio companies I talked to, they've got a plan in both places. Right. There's a way in which even as companies are going through and figuring out what lay offs are going to look like or how they're going to extend a runway at the same time that that's happening. There's also this chance where they have to dream and say to themselves, you know what, actually my relationship with my customer or my relationship, my partner, could be fundamentally different because I might be in a position to serve them differently or better. My partners might be open to new opportunities. And I think that way of thinking is so hard to do. But for the best entrepreneurs that I've dealt with or I talked to, they aren't thinking that way right now, that they are living in all three places at once. They are thinking right now about, you know, gosh, I'm going to have to renegotiate the lease and I'm going to have to lay off these 10 people. At the same time, they're saying, you know what, actually, this means that I could actually sort of offer this service to a customer who in the past would never been open to it. And at the same time, they're saying, you know what, I should now be reaching out to, you know, those 10 people who I've talked to three years ago who made some difference in my life and just sent them to quit Texas quick. No. And I think that, Mark, it's so rare and it's so hard. But when you see that, it's an incredible blessing. And it's incredibly encouraging to me. [00:08:57][94.3]
Henry Kaestner: [00:08:58] As some of your portfolio companies are coming back to you and talking to you about liquidity and obviously some of the reactions you'll have to that are that in some cases they need to lay some people off. How are you thinking about capital structures right now? How are you thinking about companies and their ability to access debt or more equity? Are you finding that this is a time to think creatively about shoring up the balance sheet where some options? What are some of the discussions you're having right now with some of your portfolio CEOs? [00:09:26][27.8]
James Cham: [00:09:28] What's fascinating is that the answer yesterday is gonna be totally different. The answer tomorrow that the capital markets are so fluid. Right. And, you know, we're at a point right now where there is a massive stimulus that I think may have just been passed and the implications of that. We've got a number of folks who are trying to figure that out. I mean, remember companies and what that looks like could fundamentally make a company. Right. And I think that's what's weird about this moment, is that there are so many things that are possible. We were joking earlier about the fact that we were having trouble with our videoconferencing system and it exposed the fact that although we call it a cloud, it really is a bunch of servers, right? It's a bunch of. People servers are going to be overloaded right now because everyone's using it and it sort of exposes sort of the actual underpinning of what actually works and doesn't work in the. [00:10:17][48.9]
[00:10:17] It's almost as if, you know, when you watch The Matrix is a point in the movie where you realize everything's a simulation and you realize all the pieces are working and grinding together to make the system work. And we're seeing the same thing across the board in lots of different ways. Right. We're seeing that also for the financial markets where there are a number of people who thought they had a lot of money to invest and suddenly don't. [00:10:38][20.6]
[00:10:39] But at the same time, we've got a bunch of people sort of who sort of are sitting on piles of cash or eager to play. [00:10:44][5.6]
[00:10:44] Right. And I think that that ability to sort of adjust quickly to the shifting reality and to see the world as it actually is, that's hard. And so I'm reluctant to make sort of grand pronouncements, but it is definitely one of those cases where I feel like as an entrepreneur and investor, so much of your time now has to be just keeping your eyes open and sort of not using the old rules of thumb that you had. Right. That I have a whole set of like pat answers to things that may no longer apply. And that's both the fun and the terror of the job. [00:11:13][29.0]
William Norvell: [00:11:14] Hey, James. William, here I want to shift gears to a little bit as your job as an investor in sort of finding new companies to come along, and you mentioned earlier you glad you're not a market investor, but as you look at what your day to day looks like, are you open for business, looking for new businesses to invest in or are you a pause as well and kind of taking some time to see everything shakes out? Help us kind of get into the world of a venture capitalist or you specifically during the season. [00:11:42][27.4]
James Cham: [00:11:43] Yeah, I think that, you know, I was a software developer in 2000 and then I was a new investor in 2008. And of course, now so I've seen a couple of versions of this. And of course, this is totally different from anything that we've seen before. [00:11:58][14.9]
[00:11:59] So that's the first part. And I think that as far as like the generic answer is that seed stage guys are always later to react to macro events that as a seed stage investor, I'm running such small checks, you know, sort of in the grand scheme of things. And also, I'm looking so far ahead. Right. So I'm not expecting to sell a company or sell my position in a company in six months. I'm thinking about it in terms of six to 16 years. [00:12:24][25.5]
[00:12:25] And so as a result of that, you know, the timing is totally different. So that's the happy talk version of it, which is, yes, we are indeed open for business. [00:12:31][6.1]
[00:12:32] We've made a couple investments just even this week. The other part of it, though, is that the world is so uncertain now that now more than ever, like my hypotheses or ideas of how the world will turn out. They're all up in the air and my ideas about how to think about valuations and what's valuable. That's all up in the air. And so that does mean that in some ways my normal theses are changing right now. And I think we're all trying to adjust. [00:12:56][24.6]
William Norvell: [00:12:57] Well, that's good. That's good. Could you go one layer deeper. And you've been looking at the world in a certain way, predicting that is sort of your job, trying to predict what will happen and invest in, you know, the world changers. Could you talk about how you got to thinking about that? And this is a point in time. We're not going to hold you to what could be changing, what should be shifting, what is in question for you right now. And I know you don't have all the answers, but maybe just minor investors in there right where you are right now. [00:13:24][27.3]
James Cham: [00:13:25] Yeah. You know, sort of I invest a lot in enterprise software and I love enterprise software. I believe it transforms the world. But also, there's a way in which it is also fundamentally corrupt. It is corrupt in the sense that the people who buy enterprise software oftentimes really are buying it so that they can keep their job or so that they could get promoted rather than they could actually improve the life of a company. And I think that there are a whole bunch of products that were hard to sell in the past because they would require too much wrenching change inside an organization. And if we are indeed looking sort of at a prolonged downturn, then I think there's a perverse way in which willingness to change is totally different. And so the willingness to adopt new technologies can be different than it has been for the last 10 years. You know, the stereotype of the cool innovation team with the guys, with the purple glasses, you know, sort of that's how people used to think about new technology. And now the way to think about new technology is something that might actually make a huge difference. And then the implication there is then the buyers are different. The way they buy is different. The way that we think about selling is entirely different. [00:14:33][67.2]
[00:14:33] And I think all those sorts of things we're trying to figure out right now and it is partly about predicting the future, but it is mostly really about finding the most interesting entrepreneurs in the world who are living the future right now. [00:14:46][13.2]
[00:14:47] Right. And so that's the way that I actually think about it. [00:14:50][3.2]
Rusty Rueff: [00:14:51] And James, what do you tell the entrepreneur who right now is like at that precarious moment, like about to go raise, but was a couple of months away? But, you know, as the time goes by, they're burning. And so their burn is up. How did they approach you at this point? Very tactically, and then is there something that you can provide as advice about how they go back to their current investors? Because in normal times, you're running out of cash and you're going to hit a wall. You know, you might be able to raise. You just need a little more time and you might go back for that bridge loan that can sometimes feel predatory. In some ways, just give them a little bit of advice on what to do if they're in that precarious moment. [00:15:35][43.9]
James Cham: [00:15:36] So this is the time for over-communication. I think that if I were just to look at the best founders in my portfolio, they're just spending a lot of time with what you could generically call investor relations. Right. That they are trying to figure out what's the position of their various investors. Where are they? How are they doing psychologically? What's the position of the firm? And I think that involves just lots of conversation, whether that's over text or email or Skype or phone calls. And I think there's a way in which the only way that can work well is if you're connecting with other people. And in part because of the pandemic, it is both easier and harder. It's obviously harder because just like right now, we can't see each other face to face. You know, the zoom meeting skips and you can't tell whether someone's frowning or whether they just got frozen. Right. So that whole piece becomes harder, but it's easier because there are so many different ways to connect. Now that there's so many different ways you can connect with people. [00:16:29][53.8]
[00:16:30] And also in part because this pandemic is so universal, you could connect with people in authentic, deeper ways than you've ever been before because everyone's like worried about their grandmother or they're sort of stuck at home by themselves. And that chance to connect just gives you visibility. And, you know, sort of from a pragmatic point, it gives you visibility into what's going on. But also from an eternal point of view, it lets you create relationships that are just going to be important forever. [00:16:57][27.7]
Rusty Rueff: [00:16:59] Yeah. And I got to think that on the flip side of that, as an investor, you know, you probably also got this sort of nervous moment, too, where you don't want to over ask, but the same time you want to be communicated to. So that over communication piece is a great piece of advice because as an investor, I mean, I'd like to hear before I have to ask. That's right. And again, that creates confidence. [00:17:22][22.5]
James Cham: [00:17:23] That's right. And, you know, sort of the essence of that is over communication. But also, it is genuine conversation and it is hard to get genuine conversation just in general in life in the sense that I actually talk to someone. I get a different reaction. I hear something back from them. I react to that and that sort of interplay. I think the best entrepreneurs are able to get there right now very, very quickly. But it's just hard to do because it's hard to get people off of their generic positions or to actually think about the situation they're in the middle of right now. Because I don't know, as of v.c, I might be on sort of today 15 different 30 minute zoom calls. Right. Plus a couple of blogger meetings and just that ability to transition and think and be present. That's a huge opportunity. And it's so, so hard right now. [00:18:11][48.2]
Rusty Rueff: [00:18:12] Yesterday, I was on a call with one of the companies that's in my little portfolio of investments. Day before yesterday, actually in one of the co-founders wasn't there. And I said, you know, hey, what's going on? He goes, Well, I got bad news. He's very sick, is covered 19. He tested positive. He's 40 years old. Right. 40 years old. And the other co-founder. You can tell he's scared. Like he goes, we're leaving him alone. Fortunately, his wife is a physician's assistant, but she's sick, too. And they're trying to kind of work through this. And you know what it does? It also gives us an opportunity to say, hey, you know, I'm a person of faith. Would you please pass to him that I am sincerely not just making it up. I am praying for him. He goes on my prayer list. So there there is that moment for authentic that we can actually go even a little further in the authenticity of how our faith plays out. [00:19:05][52.6]
James Cham: [00:19:06] Yeah. And I think this is also you know, it's interesting. This is the moment for Jesus. Right. That this is the moment where it's only going to be by paying attention to the Holy Spirit and being finely tuned and not getting distracted on Twitter. Right. For you're going to be able to think that instead of be prompted. And I feel like it's amazing to me because, you know, the best entrepreneurs have so many distractions and so many like the places where they get information and that ability to step back and actually hear right here what's important. [00:19:41][35.2]
[00:19:42] That's beautiful to see when that actually happens. [00:19:44][1.6]
Henry Kaestner: [00:19:45] Indeed. And, you know, I think James, you pointing us to Jesus is super important. [00:19:49][4.3]
[00:19:49] I know I've had some actually some very rich conversations with people that share faith over the course last couple of days. Many of them are in the health care space and they are very, very concerned about the impact that this has on the general health population. And of course, it makes sense as their perspective. It's their flock. It's for guys uniquely equip them to do with their their talents and their experience. On the other hand, my background is more of being an entrepreneur or even more so than being an investor. And so I feel a particular sensitivity for my flock, if you will. And those are small to medium sized business owners who are going through some real challenges and questioning whether the treatment is going to be worse than the actual disease. And yet again, on the flip side, the health care, people are looking at health care systems being overwhelmed. And I think that the answer for all of us is that we need to look to guide and understand the guy to sovereign and guy cares about the health care and cares about health care professionals. And he cares about the economy and jobless claims and small to medium sized business owners. And the thing that unites us is something that's we really need to rely on. We need to rely on our shared faith and understand that God is sovereign and that we if we lean on our faith first, it will then give us the grace to be able to engage with other people who might have views that are different than ours will be able to rejoice in what we share in common more than the differences that we have. And it will allow us to then be able to be a more effective witness and testimony to others that are trying to figure out what they think and why they think. This just really strikes me as just an incredible time for us all as believers to be able to speak into the different sectors in which we have been given the special privilege of being able to speak into. And I think as investors, that's super important. My sense as an investor right now, the conversations I have or the next two months about why I have the hope that I have, the perspective I have will clips that that I had in all of 2019 and probably will have an of Lord wine on all of 2021. And it's a conversation, hopefully of encouragement to the entrepreneurs that are in our portfolio that are laying people off. It's an encouragement to our is to be able to help them and understand that with their money that they've entrusted us with, that we're looking to be faithful stores of that and that we're playing the long game that we're looking to love on great enterprises and great leaders who we have chosen invest in not so much because of their idea or because of what they're can hit next quarter or the following quarter, but because of our assessment in their talent to be able to see what the market is giving them and to be able respond by adding value to the overall economy. And I just I hope that we all lean into that. And it's daunting. It's not easy, but it does, I think, make us rely more on God. And so this has been a very spiritually rich time for me. [00:22:35][165.9]
James Cham: [00:22:36] Yeah. You know, it's so interesting because, of course, it's not going to be all good news. Like, I feel like I've maybe I've sounded too optimistic in this conversation. There's going to be a lot of pain and a lot of people's lives are going to feel like they're gonna be destroyed. And it's really, really hard. There's a way in which, you know, sort of for the younger entrepreneurs, they've never seen a downturn. Reagan sort of they've got in the job market in 2008, and they've only seen it go up since then. [00:22:58][22.3]
[00:22:59] And I think this idea that bad things could happen to people who are capable or people who are good will have a difficult time getting a job. [00:23:07][8.1]
[00:23:08] That idea is actually going to be really hard for a bunch of people to understand and to process, especially for those who've been incredibly blessed and incredibly successful. And I think that that that humbling process, you know, that's going to require deep character, but it's also going to require like deep theology. I think there's a way in which all the theoretical things that you've learned in Sunday school, all the ideas you've got around the Trinity, all the ideas you've got around redemption. Sort of God's role in this world, they're going to be tested now, and I think and I hope that the church is ready for this moment. [00:23:42][34.5]
[00:23:43] And that's, you know, to us I am partly praying about now, but I'm also partly praying that we as a set of institutions and a tribe of people that will be resilient for the long term and not sort of fall apart because of, you know, various disagreements or discussions over the next couple days, because we were still thinking in terms of days. I feel like we should be thinking in terms of months and quarters and years. And so that's the thing that I pray about. [00:24:11][27.7]
William Norvell: [00:24:12] Amen. James, I'm interested in how when you talk about people that are not in a downturn, I just think that's such a pressure conversation, especially in Silicon Valley or in the broader, you know, early stage technology world where I think it's been especially good. Right. I mean, if you're a good engineer, there's ten job offers. People are e-mailing you on LinkedIn everywhere. There are no layoffs. It's just even further out to the right. As you see, your company potentially have to deal with layoffs. I'm wondering a couple of things. One, are companies in the early stage tech space, do you see some layoffs coming, too? Do you see in 2020 budgets being readjusted? I think there's also a mindset out there that are you know, once they open the doors, all are going to go back to normal. Mehta How are you counseling your company there in 3D? Do you see a fundamental shift maybe out in the early stage tech sector where people are going to slow the pace a little bit, maybe go more towards optimal growth instead of crazy venture capital feel growth that has been sort of happening over the last decade. Like and I know Megan needs a couple of different predictions and I wondered how you see it this time, you know, potentially changing those things. [00:25:21][69.2]
James Cham: [00:25:22] You know, it ranges. So why the...I will admit that I've tried very hard to bite my tongue and to let the entrepreneur tell me what's going on first before I come over because it really depends on the sector right now. And I think the only thing we know right now is that that, yes, there are going to be lots of layoffs in certain sectors and it's going to be really, really painful. And lots of very good people are going to be in a position where they're going to face financial insecurity for the first time in their life and sort of being able to process that and being there for them, it can be hard. I think the other things is gonna be true, that layoffs are going to happen online. And, you know, layoffs are already inhumane. It's so difficult for both parties but to have to lay off 100 people or 150 people over video conference like that's crazy. And that's never been done before. I think that for certain types of companies, they're going to do very, very well in this market. There's certain ones where companies are you know, investors are banging on their walls because they're especially suited for remote work or for automation. There are other companies that sort of, let's say, companies in the travel industry. Right. Or companies that are reliant on sort of Face-To-Face interaction as part of their value, where they're going to have to like shut down basically for months and months as everyone figures out this pandemic. And I think the reality of that is just it's just so hard to look face on and understand. So that's part of it. And then I think the broader question of will things be different? Yes, things will be different. But it's not like gods told us how things will be different three months from now. The way that things are we different. We are highly dependent on sort of the decisions that individual entrepreneurs and leaders and pastors. The pattern is that they set right now could sort of set the pattern for the next couple of decades. And I think that's both encouraging and terrifying, right. That right now, when we're already distracted and worried about our kids or our grandparents at this moment, when we are hampered, the decisions we make are going to set down for a long time. And it's only by the grace of God. Right, that we'll make the decisions. And I think spending time sort of just holding your breath a little bit, stepping back and praying and sort of in a world where there's infinite amounts of information. Right. Sort of being able to focus on the things that are really important and that sort of actually should influence your decision. That's the challenge, I think, for investors and entrepreneurs and everyone right now. [00:27:42][139.9]
Henry Kaestner: [00:27:43] James, anything else that may have not come up in conversation or anything else? And there is a need to be we cover a lot of ground, but is there anything else that you think that our audience needs to know about? [00:27:52][9.2]
James Cham: [00:27:53] So, you know, I come from a strain of Christianity that's mildly charismatic. Like we're not, like, super charismatic, really mildly charismatic. [00:27:59][6.3]
[00:28:00] And I've been convinced for the last couple of quarters that revivals around the corner. [00:28:07][6.6]
[00:28:08] You know, there's a secular historian named Jill Lipoor, who writes about American history, who the other day said, you know, America's overdue for a revival, like a religious revival. [00:28:16][8.5]
[00:28:17] And I thought, oh, my goodness, here we have a secular historian and she has more faith in me. What's wrong with me? Right. And I think that there's a way in which, you know, there's going to be revival and it's going to come out as like something out of jail. But it's going to be the dreams of old men. And it's can be the prophecy and work of young people. And I think there's a way in which, like as a 46 year old, you know, sort of my dreams are different than the actual work that's gonna be required. And so I'm very hopeful about this entire generation of like teenagers and 20 somethings who are gonna talk about God differently and they're gonna be raised in a totally different environment and their ability to communicate. And our ability is like sort of investors or older people to recognize the value that they create and encourage that. I feel like that's the challenge for me. [00:29:04][47.3]
Henry Kaestner: [00:29:05] That's a great encouragement. That's a great word. [00:29:07][1.4]
William Norvell: [00:29:07] Amen, such a great word. Thank you for coming on sharing your wisdom. I love how you framed the last couple of moments of just that. This is a big time for people to lean into the Holy Spirit, to lean into Jesus, to try to understand what he's calling us to in situation, and that those could have big impacts moving forward. And so in the midst of that, I'd love to ask you, you know, whereas God have you right now, potentially this morning or over the last few weeks during this crisis, where did he have you and his word? What name is coming alive in a new way? You just mentioned a great pass from Joel. So maybe a little bit more on that, but it's something else. Where did he had you maybe walk us listeners through where you are experienced? [00:29:47][39.2]
James Cham: [00:29:48] Here's where I really am. You know, I have a little bit of a cold I'm sort of a little paranoid. I'm sitting in my grise. I'm worried about like my family and my friends in my portfolio, you know, sort of I'm trying to not look at Twitter, you know. [00:30:00][11.7]
[00:30:00] So that's where I really am. And at the same time, I'm also sitting here at a time when it feels like I don't know the institutions that proved to be effective and good now are gonna earn credibility for decades and decades. [00:30:14][13.1]
[00:30:14] And I just so pray that those institutions will be Christian ones like, you know, sort of led by people who are going to follow Jesus and Senate example for people for a long, long time. And so it doesn't have to be me. It doesn't have to be someone listening on this podcast. But it's got to be someone and I pray so hard that sort of God will raise those men and women up and that they'll help them create these institutions that really could last for a long, long time. And so, you know, that's my hope. That's my prayer. And sort of like that's my blessing to you guys. [00:30:47][33.0]
William Norvell: [00:30:48] Amen! Thank you so much for spending some time with us during the season. [00:30:52][3.8]
James Cham: [00:30:52] Indeed. Yeah. Hey, feel for your brother. Yeah. No, my pleasure, guys. You know, God bless you for your work and hope to see you guys physically soon. [00:30:52][0.0]
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